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Author Topic: Positve critic  (Read 10464 times)

thejackal

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Positve critic
« on: April 09, 2008, 08:41:49 PM »
Found this on MTV today.  Sorry if it has been posted somewhere else




By James Montgomery



On The Record: Were We Wrong About Stone Temple Pilots?

Being a rock critic is easy. Admitting you were wrong isn't. So naturally, writing this week's column was tough ... because it's about Stone Temple Pilots, a band that officially reunited on Monday night in Los Angeles and one that, over the course of five albums and nearly 10 years together, was one of the most critically reviled acts on the planet.

So, of course, if I were to follow protocol, I'd scoff at the reunion, make some joke like "What does this mean for Army of Anyone?!?!" and move on. I'd dismiss STP as nothing more than generic Nirvana-bes, ham-fisted, lunk-headed pretenders to the throne who foisted their brand of derivative bro-rock on the masses for far too long. Only, I'm not going to do any of that.

See, I'm about to float a hypothesis that basically flies in the face of a decade's worth of "conventional critical wisdom," and one that might get my rock-critic card revoked permanently (which means no more 20 percent discount at Quiznos). But I don't think I can keep it inside any longer. So, in the interest of the truth, I'm just going to come out and say it ... here we go ...

Stone Temple Pilots were actually pretty great.

And this isn't something I just realized, either. Ever since I heard the opening chords to "Plush" (which, really, is probably one of the 10 best grunge songs ever written) way back in 1992, I was a closeted STP fan. I followed them through ups and downs — and frontman Scott Weiland's many drug arrests — always secretly marveling at their dexterity, their ability to churn out hit after hit, and the seamless way with which they leapt between genres (bluesy stompers, psychedelic spindlers, glammed-out rockers), often all on the same record. And though I would never tell anyone, I never thought they got the respect they deserved. I would read reviews and get a little pissed when critics took potshots at them. After all, the only thing they seemed guilty of was having a stupid name (well, that or the whole "does-it-glorify-rape?" debate about "Sex Type Thing").

So now that I've said all that, I'm going to say this. Of all the so-called "alt-rock" acts that lumbered the Earth in the 1990s — a list that includes everyone from Alice in Chains to Tad — Stone Temple Pilots were probably one of the five best. (I'd probably put them behind only Nirvana, Pearl Jam and Soundgarden.) Seriously. They had more rock-radio hits (all of which were pretty great) and sold more records (not all of which were pretty great, but, you know, whatever) than pretty much any other band of that era, and they did it for much longer too (finally calling it quits in 2003, leaving only Eddie Vedder and company to carry the mantle). Not to mention the fact that in Weiland, they had one of the most dynamic — yet colossally screwed-up — frontmen of the decade. I cannot understand why they are almost universally panned ... only, I can.

Basically, STP were like the Mötley Crüe or the Led Zeppelin of alt-rock. A critically loathed — though for no particularly good reason — yet commercially successful band that always played second fiddle to so-called "important" acts, yet the one that really made the wheels of the industry turn. The kind of band that makes people hate rock critics.

So perhaps it's time we reconsidered STP's place in rock history. And I'm not saying we carve out a spot for them on Mount Rockmore or anything like that, but how about this: Think for a second about those hits I keep mentioning — songs like "Plush," "Creep," "Interstate Love Song," "Big Bang Baby" or "Lady Picture Show." Chances are, they're w-a-a-y better than you remembered them being (if you need a refresher, check out some of their videos). Now think if there's another band in recent memory that was so adept at switching gears or did so with such success. Can you name one? I can't.

Next, consider the fact that STP might also be much more brilliant than you ever realized. Take, for example, the video for "Big Bang Baby." You remember it: the ultra-low-budget one that was shot on VHS tape, the sole purpose of which seemed to be so the Pilots could pay homage to Toni Basil's "Mickey." It made no sense whatsoever, right? Or how about the time in 1993 when STP performed an entire show at NYC's Roseland Ballroom in full Kiss makeup just because they wanted to. And let's not forget the fact that they even released an album as batsh-- crazy as Tiny Music ... Songs From the Vatican Gift Shop. Were these just examples of rock-star ego gone horribly awry, or was that just what Weiland and company wanted you to think? Clearly, these are not the kind of questions that enter your mind when considering the average rock band. Or even Nirvana, for that matter.

And so, my fellow rock-critic brethren, I urge you to do the math. Think twice before slagging off STP. Be kind while writing about their massive 65-date (!) reunion tour. Because, really, they deserve better. Stone Temple Pilots didn't change the world or make rock important again or even inspire a series of morbid, longing tomes about their career, but I'm not sure they really need to. All I'm suggesting is that perhaps it's time to admit that we were wrong about them from the get-go — that we treated them unfairly. We can say we're sorry, because STP certainly deserve to be remembered as more than just a throwaway line in a Pavement song. The truth can set you free.

SilvergunSuperman

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Re: Positve critic
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2008, 09:00:19 PM »
That article is pretty fucking cool.

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/158506 ... lots.jhtml

VeiledTrickerySTP

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Re: Positve critic
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2008, 09:04:20 PM »
Another awesome article! I think people finally realize you don't know what you've missed until it is gone. I never did understand the criticism of the band. They could make an album like Tiny Music and Shagri-La Dee Da because the band is that talented. Sure, STP could've released Core sequels but they would be forgotten quickly (Limp Bizkit anyone?)

pilothead

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Re: Positve critic
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2008, 09:49:16 PM »
It's just nice to hear a critic say something positive about STP....
t~RoY

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Silvergun Picture Show

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Re: Positve critic
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2008, 10:21:49 PM »
Yah they are way better than Nirvana and Soundgarden...They are in the class of Pearl Jam in my opinion...not taking anything away from Nirvana or SG i'm just not a fan of their music
STP: 08/22/10 - Cleveland, OH.
        08/28/10 - Pittsburgh, PA.

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Nathantok7

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Re: Positve critic
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2008, 10:52:57 PM »
we never gave one fuck about what the critics said. we knew what we heard
The lunatic, is on the grass.

pj88

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Re: Positve critic
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2008, 12:56:11 AM »
Nice!

VeiledTrickerySTP

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Re: Positve critic
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2008, 06:51:39 PM »
Quote from: "Silvergun Picture Show"
Yah they are way better than Nirvana and Soundgarden...They are in the class of Pearl Jam in my opinion...not taking anything away from Nirvana or SG i'm just not a fan of their music

In retrospect, I don't understand why Nirvana is held to a higher standard than other bands of that time period. I suppose Nirvana ushered in rock music with more substance but compared to STP, I can't say Nirvana is better. I'm not sure if Kurt Cobain would've been capable of such an album like Tiny Music, for instance.

Silvergun Picture Show

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Re: Positve critic
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2008, 07:37:57 PM »
Quote from: "VeiledTrickerySTP"
In retrospect, I don't understand why Nirvana is held to a higher standard than other bands of that time period. I suppose Nirvana ushered in rock music with more substance but compared to STP, I can't say Nirvana is better. I'm not sure if Kurt Cobain would've been capable of such an album like Tiny Music, for instance.

Yah i feel they got their status from MTV playing their videos such as Smells Like Teen Spirit and Heart Shaped Box...Totally agree that Kurt Cobain wouldn't have been able to create Tiny Music at all...Actually I think the Foo Fighters are a better band and more talented than Nirvana, Dave Grohl is a phenominal musician imo
STP: 08/22/10 - Cleveland, OH.
        08/28/10 - Pittsburgh, PA.

"Some of my finest hours have been spent on my back veranda, smoking hemp and observing as far as my eye could see."
-Thoman Jefferson

Stop That Pigeon

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Re: Positve critic
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2008, 07:39:19 PM »
Quote from: "VeiledTrickerySTP"
I suppose Nirvana ushered in rock music with more substance

That's the thing that has always irritated me - history has already been re-written so that "Nirvana saved the world from hair metal" or whatever. Nonsense, imho.

I stopped keeping tabs on the rock world when that whole grunge "scene" started - as a huge fan of genuinely creative & intelligent bands such as King's X and Living Colour, it just seemed like a complete step in the wrong direction. Plus all the macho rugby guys started wearing checked shirts and writing poetry...it was just pathetic, haha.

Of course, I ended up missing out on STP for a couple of years which I regret to this day. And I do think that AIC, as well as being great, were a much closer fit for STPs "Core" sound than any of the other names that got thrown at them. Just my opinion.

loungefly611

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Re: Positve critic
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2008, 07:49:04 PM »
Quote from: "Silvergun Picture Show"
Yah i feel they got their status from MTV playing their videos such as Smells Like Teen Spirit and Heart Shaped Box...Totally agree that Kurt Cobain wouldn't have been able to create Tiny Music at all...Actually I think the Foo Fighters are a better band and more talented than Nirvana, Dave Grohl is a phenominal musician imo

I prefer the Foos to Nirvana as well.
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VeiledTrickerySTP

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Re: Positve critic
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2008, 08:00:08 PM »
I miss Alice in Chains. What a talented group they were. Yeah, I know there's something called Alice in Chains touring with some other lead singer, but that's not real Alice in Chains. Sorry if there are fans of that lead singer they have now, but he does no justice to any of the AiC classic songs.

Vasoline*Val

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Re: Positve critic
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2008, 01:49:31 AM »
Well well well its about damn time that a critic gave sTp a break and highlighed great reconition!!  i  have been following this band since core and i was 10 when that came out.. i come from  a family that revolves around music .. some kids at 10 were still reading lil kid story books i was busy reading my dads issues of rolling stone and billbord magizine.. it was just more intresting to me .. and  in my time of following this band.. they have takein a ton of low blows.. and i could just never wrap my thoughts around it to understand why.. and really alot of these critics were all about the cookie cut processed bands .. and never gave kudos to the real talent.. like they were always trying to keep them down.. and thought maybe if they talked enough shit about 'em no one would like them.. and when they used to compare weiland to eddie of pearl jam.. id get so pissed off, id be sitting in my room as a lil kid and read that shit call a friend to vent and all they could tell me was what was going on on 90210!  id get more mad cuz no one was on my  level.. at at those moments in my life i was wanted to be a writer for rolling stone..  i remember in 8th grade i had a creative writing class.. and we were asked to write a album review on our favorite band  and an album of theirs that you liked.. I was so happy to have a chance like that ! i probably wrote the best damn paper in my life.. and got an A+.. So it was just the right thing to do.. i did a review on Core.. and it was damn good.. I felt like a did some kind of unpublished justicfication!    And the teacher knew what a die hard fan i was of them too .. that he was blown away by my paper that he shared it in front of the whole class, it was a very proud moment for me..  Im 25  now and wish i stuck with writing  .. i could be doing colums for Rolling stone now! LOL
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Ivy

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Re: Positve critic
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2008, 11:45:58 AM »
Quote from: "pilothead"
It's just nice to hear a critic say something positive about STP....

Yeah, it's about time too even though it's kind of strange to read something positive because STP had gotten a lot of bullshit in the past from the press. Maybe it will become popular for the critics to actually be positive about STP. 
Have a coke and a smile and shut the fuck up.

tatiana

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Re: Positve critic
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2008, 12:04:51 PM »
see - you stick around long enough and someone's bound to say something nice...

this is going to sound harsh but - nirvana wouldn't be held to such a high standard if cobain was still alive. it takes more to carry on in the music business than to become the "beloved" martyr.
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