NEW ALBUM

[Immunize]

Jeff sounds like Lemmy on Middle of Nowhere

[Yanks241]

You think half of the songs on Self-titled 2010 were classics!? Dear lord...



Classics or I just like the ones I listed, whatever you want to say.  if you define classics as interstate, Big empty and still remains etc then no they aren’t classics.  I still enjoy those songs and what Scott did vocally on each.

[EyesOfDisarray]

It gets better with every listen!

Definitely agree with this. I think that, during early listens, I was still getting used to Jeff and this slightly newer style of songs, but the more times I listen to the whole thing, the more I love it. And it really is best listened to all at once, top to bottom, in the same sitting. The songs are expertly crafted and performed, and the track order flows really well.

[loungefly90]

You think half of the songs on Self-titled 2010 were classics!? Dear lord...

Classics or I just like the ones I listed, whatever you want to say.  if you define classics as interstate, Big empty and still remains etc then no they aren’t classics.  I still enjoy those songs and what Scott did vocally on each.

Im still wondering why and how STP fans can listen to albums like SLDD and Core and then listen to the 2010 ST and not see a problem.

[RhettButler]

While I think the 2010 album was a step down from the first five, it was still a good, solid album, imho. Love the new disc, and it does indeed get better with repeated plays.

[Immunize]

It gets better with every listen!

Definitely agree with this. I think that, during early listens, I was still getting used to Jeff and this slightly newer style of songs, but the more times I listen to the whole thing, the more I love it. And it really is best listened to all at once, top to bottom, in the same sitting. The songs are expertly crafted and performed, and the track order flows really well.

It'll be in my car for a good while!

[leocal79]

It gets better with every listen!

Definitely agree with this. I think that, during early listens, I was still getting used to Jeff and this slightly newer style of songs, but the more times I listen to the whole thing, the more I love it. And it really is best listened to all at once, top to bottom, in the same sitting. The songs are expertly crafted and performed, and the track order flows really well.

It'll be in my car for a good while!

I agree with this totally and have been playing it nonstop in my car since it came out. I skipped the tracks that were already released at first and it wasn't till I played it all the way through till I got a real appreciation for the record as a whole the band really got this right. It is shocking to see a band this far into their career put out an album this good and well thought out . Jeff brings a new element slightly more modern of an edge with a classic feel and blends well with the band. I can't wait to hear album number two and hope they release it next year since so much time has already been lost.

[lovemachine97]

Okay, so while the album needs more digesting (and at 39 I have less time than ever to do it), I am ready to talk about about this record.


First, the bad. I don't know what they were thinking with the production. I'm a guitar player. I know the faintest bit about sound, but for those that know a lot, I basically know nothing. But man it sounds muddied up and under water. Listening back to High Rise, while it doesn't have the individual character that each of the first three records had, at least it sounds crisp and clear with better separation of the frequencies. Even Kretz's cymbals sound a bit lifeless without the crispness of the high end I am used to. Maybe it's something totally different, but it doesn't sound great.


Secondly, I'm not really excited about the guitar tones Dean brought this time. I also don't think the riffs are that memorable. Even High Rise had Black Heart and Tomorrow (and I wish both of those had been available for this record). All in all I am a bit surprised at the music on this record.


That said, I do think the chemistry here is way better than with Chester, and I think Jeff is a great fit. There ARE some really nice songs here. If anything, it sounds like the music was phoned in more than anything. But again I think that is a problem with only the 4 of them being involved in the process. A producer pushes you to be better, especially a great musician like O'Brien. His absence is missed on both self-titled records.


I skip over more songs on this record than I have past STP albums, but part of STP's greatness was being greater than the sum of their parts. It just worked. They talk about knowing from the first jam on Where the River Goes with Scott, yet they took their time with Jeff. I get the reasons why they were cautious, but they also are admitted they didn't "know" like they did when Dean joined.


I do find several of the songs in my head, including Roll Me Under which I don't actually like all that much, yet it stays in my head more than other songs. I do think that song is likely one hell of a beast live, though.


I am happy with it, and it is easier to accept with Scott now gone. Jeff, from the videos I have seen, does a great job live, and I think their knew songs fit into the live show seamlessly. Would LOVE to see teh acoustic set come back with Creep, Sour Girl, Pretty Penny, and Thought She'd Be Mine. Those No.4-era and SLDD-era shows were spectacular, and way better than the PRS with the acoustic pickup that Dean blends.


Anyway, my two cents.

[John]

First, the bad. I don't know what they were thinking with the production. I'm a guitar player. I know the faintest bit about sound, but for those that know a lot, I basically know nothing. But man it sounds muddied up and under water. Listening back to High Rise, while it doesn't have the individual character that each of the first three records had, at least it sounds crisp and clear with better separation of the frequencies. Even Kretz's cymbals sound a bit lifeless without the crispness of the high end I am used to. Maybe it's something totally different, but it doesn't sound great.

I didn't understand these comments until over the weekend.  My friend was complaining about it being muddy.  So I asked him to give me his earbuds and it sounded like a bucket of ass.  I've only listened to this album with studio monitors, studio headphones, and in my car (which is nothing special, at all).  It's very good on my monitors, great on my headphones, and perfectly fine in my car (though I'm less concerned about detailed intricacies of music while I'm blasting down a highway).  I think it's a density problem.  These tunes are packed with layers. 

For me, I think it sounds pretty great!  Especially in headphones!  There's a lot of intricate work done with the stereo field.  The only thing on this album that baffles me is Eric's snare drum.  Mystifying.  There's no treble. 

So, for the people who all think the album sounds muddy, what are you listening on?  What device and/or what speakers? 

[John]

Also, I know these types of things are always contentious, however, I "fixed" Reds and Blues to have a slightly shorter and (what I consider to be) a more natural ending.  Your mileage may vary. 

https://www.belowempty.com/forum/index.php?topic=11679.0

[takauya]

I'm listening with AKG headphones. I think the bass is too loud and unclear. The overall sound is muffed because of that.

[Comatose Commodity]

With a few more spins under my belt, here are some updated thoughts.

I'm not too technical but I agree that the production is a bit "lifeless" at parts. I wish it sounded more dynamic. Brendan O'Brien is missed, but if bringing him in costs millions of dollars, I can easily understand why that's not an option. Like I said, I don't want to dwell on technical issues too much as I'd probably be talking out of my butt most of the time. All in all, it still sounds fresh and alright for the most part.

Most importantly, they sound like they are enjoying it, there's plenty of good songs (while some weaker too), there is creativity and Jeff Gutt really fits in. All four them bring their best to table. Rob's bass tells stories as always and on each song there's something cool going on. "Good Shoes", "Art of Letting Go" and "Roll Me Under" are just some of his best bass work on the record.

Dean shines on many tunes. If we are to look at just solos then "Meadow", "Thought She'd Be Mine" and "Reds & Blues" come to mind. His playing throughout on "Good Shoes" is just amazing.

Eric serves the songs as always. I didn't want any drum solos. Maybe I agree with some of the sound issues someone just pointed out.

Jeff Gutt. Well, he's the man for the job. He has range. He can handle the rockers but he really shines on the softer stuff. I hope with time there's some more personality in his lyrics. Otherwise I'm satisfied with him, considering it's his first album. There are many creative melodies that don't take the easiest route. He just has a great voice. I like him especially on "Meadow",  "Thought She'd Be Mine",  "Art of Letting Go", "Good Shoes" and "Middle of Nowhere".

As far as the songwriting goes I think there are too many songs that try to cram too much into one song and there are a few songs that are packed with good ideas, that don't really work in the end. More specifically, the songs change direction too much for their own good. More on that in the song-by-song. Otherwise it's all fine and dandy, I mean most of the songs are really good and even the lowest lows aren't THAT low.

Stylistically I wish there's been at least one really heavy song in the spirit of Core. I mean not necessarily an aggressive song, but something with sledgehammer, mountain-size guitars like "Wicked Garden" or "Where the River Goes". Maybe a real epic to close the album too? Oh well, can't have it all.

Here's my song-by-song review:

10 (Masterpiece, something that for me matches a Plush or Interstate Love Song)

9 (Great, basically something I'd put on a "Best of"; compilation. Something I feel I wil definitely spin years
from now and still appreciate greatly.)

7-8 (Good, solid STP but nothing that I'd really consider their best. Perhaps potential growers or on the
other hand, songs that I might care less for later.

5-6 (Okay, but will probably not listen to these more than on the rare occasion. Feel the songs are partly
alright but somehow fall flat in the end)

3-4 (Forgettable. Not awful, but just songs that feel like filler, like they're too generic maybe, don't awake
any feeling or I just straight up don't like how they go)

1-2 Well, luckily there were none that truly sucked here

Middle of Nowhere 7/10

Interesting how much it sounds like "Sucker Train Blues" in parts. Anyway, I think this song just grabs me. It
is a fitting high octane opener with pace, with all four showing off some decent chops. But in particular I
really like what Jeff does on this song. Cool tones. Arrangement-wise, unlike some of the new tunes, I feel
like this one has a nice flow, where all the parts fit together really well. At the end of the day, maybe not
my preferred type of rock song stylistically, but this one is simply quite alright.

Guilty 3/10

It’s just too generic for its own good. Listening to the verse, I have to check if it’s ‘Black Heart’ I’m listening
to. Don’t like it. Jeff’s pretty good again in the pre-chorus and chorus where the style changes, but overall
this just does nothing to me. It feels directionless and just like “okay, we need a pre-chorus here, a chorus
here, I have no inspiration so I’ll just google typical alternative rock song structure”.


Meadow 9/10

This song simply kicks ass. It’s so fun and full of energy. Very uplifting. Gutt’s vocals are perfect here, so
spot on, gritty, powerful. Great solo from Dean too. I love the ooze of confidence. It’s just “let’s just crank it
up to ten and let it rip, mother****ers”.

Just a Little Lie 6/10

I like the quirky guitar riff, the groove, the slight 70’s prog feel and the trippy-ness. There’s great ideas all
over, but somehow the song is not really there, you know. The verse is exciting but then the chorus feels a
bit forced or that it doesn’t fit with the rest of the song. It’s a slightly psychedelic song, which I like, but I
just wish they could’ve dug a little deeper in that psychedelia.

Six Eight 4/10

Same problem as the song before. The chorus just comes in, in an awkward way and I don’t think it’s any
good. Good ideas, but the song isn’t really there. I don’t know why so many of these songs have this
awkward feeling of two or more songs squeezed into one, when others just work so seamlessly. Which
reminds me of….

Thought She’d Be Mine 9/10

….Best song on the album. Simple but effective, serene, captivating. Beautiful slide guitar (reminds me a bit
off of “Heroes” by David Bowie). Brilliant vocals.

Roll Me Under 5/10

The chorus starts off quite similar to “Six Eight”, but here it actually fits. I like the grit and sheer power in
Jeff’s voice during the chorus. I can see people digging this live. Not a huge fan of the lyrics or the melodies.
Leaves me a bit cold, but I have actually began to appreciate it more than when I first heard it.

Never Enough 3/10

Weakest track on the record. I like the Roadhouse Blues vibe, but why do they have to change direction so
much once again? A song can change and have different moods sure, but that in itself, when ill-fitting,
doesn’t bring much added value. I mean one second it’s Roadhouse Blues, then it’s the most clichéd slow
part ever in “No, it’s never enough…” and before you know it you are in Green Day land “Throw away your
anarchy”.

Art of Letting Go 8/10

Very good ballad and I don’t think it’s easy to write these songs without making them too sugary. Jeff
shines again here. I like the lyrics, the reflectiveness and the solo is killer. A certain Scott comes to mind
during the verses, and that’s only a good thing.

Finest Hour 8/10

Knowing that it’s directly about their fallen comrades, makes me appreciate it more. There’s a nice feel
throughout, quite serene and peaceful. One of my favorites on the record for sure.

Good Shoes 9/10

Groovy. Killer bassline, sick guitars and Jeff fits the song like a glove. Sexy. I think this one can be great live!

Reds & Blues 8/10

This song is chill. I think there are some drug references in this one, no? I think this could be a grower.
Reminds me a little of Incubus. Some McCartney vibes in the bridge, which I love. This is a nice Sunday
afternoon lazy song.

The record is a worthy addition to the catalog!

Bonus tracks:

Already Gone

Catchy, full of energy. Fun riff. Could see this as a radio hit. I'd give it 8/10

Forget Forever

Yeah, it's catchy but a little meh. Too repetitive. Has kind of a soft country vibe. Gives me some Stereophonics vibes but also some Kid Rock vibes. Could have it the background on a hot summer day. It's okay I guess 6/10

[Slither]

First, the bad. I don't know what they were thinking with the production. I'm a guitar player. I know the faintest bit about sound, but for those that know a lot, I basically know nothing. But man it sounds muddied up and under water.

So, for the people who all think the album sounds muddy, what are you listening on?  What device and/or what speakers? 

I've strictly been listening on my powerbeats wireless headphones, so I am for sure getting a different sound than people who are listening in their cars or on speakers. Having said that, there is still a significant difference between this album and most other music I listen to on the same headphones. Even Peace sounds significantly better than this one, which they also self-produced. It's more noticeable on some songs than others, but if I were to listen to a heavier song off Butterfly back to back with a heaver song off Peace, it's night and day,

My theory is they made a concerted effort to make Butterfly sound heavier and "back to basics" and ended up going a little overboard with the layering and overall production. As I've said numerous times before, a 5th man in the room would have really been to their benefit.

[Flyingmerpa]

First, the bad. I don't know what they were thinking with the production. I'm a guitar player. I know the faintest bit about sound, but for those that know a lot, I basically know nothing. But man it sounds muddied up and under water.

So, for the people who all think the album sounds muddy, what are you listening on?  What device and/or what speakers? 

I've strictly been listening on my powerbeats wireless headphones, so I am for sure getting a different sound than people who are listening in their cars or on speakers. Having said that, there is still a significant difference between this album and most other music I listen to on the same headphones. Even Peace sounds significantly better than this one, which they also self-produced. It's more noticeable on some songs than others, but if I were to listen to a heavier song off Butterfly back to back with a heaver song off Peace, it's night and day,

My theory is they made a concerted effort to make Butterfly sound heavier and "back to basics" and ended up going a little overboard with the layering and overall production. As I've said numerous times before, a 5th man in the room would have really been to their benefit.

Ken Andrews mixed this record, and also Army of Anyone.  How does Army of Anyone sound on those headphones?

[Aaron]

I've been digesting this album and wanted to wait awhile before posting anything.  Its been fun reading everyone's opinions. 

Rating STP's records against themselves only (not against other bands), to me Core is an 8 of 10, Purple - 9, Tiny Music is a 10, No. 4 - 7, SLDD - 8.  I'd give "Butterfly" a 7/10.  Overall I think this is a pretty solid and consistent effort. No.4 has higher highs than Butterfly but it also has lower lows (IMO).

As for the highs I think Middle of Nowhere, Meadow, Six Eight, Thought She'd Be Mine, and Finest Hour are standout tracks.  Lots of good stuff there and it covers a pretty great sonic landscape.  Most of the rest of the songs are at least solid.  Only song I'm not really into is Reds & Blues.  I like both Best Buy cuts better than that one (especially Already Gone). 

As for the lows/missed opportunities- I personally think the mixing is only fair.  Brendan's absence still is just as obvious to me as Scott's.  The EQ is off in many places.  Some songs Jeff is too low in the mix, sometimes I think the guitars could be louder.  I think the Deleo's do an alright job, but I do think they need that 5th member to reign them in at times and to challenge them to think of things in a different way.  For example, I think Dean uses the wrong guitar tone on several tracks.  His playing is great, but his amp/guitar/pedal selection is off. Its most obvious to me on Middle of Nowhere.  Great track (definitely hear the comparisons to Suckertrain Blues), but Dean's tone on this track is just a bit to nasally.  It would be better (in my opinion) on this track if the guitar was opened up a bit more and with a little more edge.  Other tracks where I think the solo should have a more soaring tone Dean again goes with a more of a compressed overdrive.  I get that this is kind of "Dean's tone" but it wasn't always, at least not on the albums.  I think more diverse guitar tones throughout the record would elevate it a bit.  Eric's drums still sound kind of compressed/lifeless to me on a few tracks, but overall I think he definitely mixed his style up a bit here, which I think is great.  Robert, as always is fantastic.

As for Gutt, I would consider myself a "supporter" I think he is THE BEST fit for this band in a Weiland-less world.  That said, Gutt's lyrics aren't as strong overall and are definitely a bit more on the nose and less metaphorical.  To his credit, he does well overall (especially for a first outing) and I do think he will continue to grow as a lyricist.  Scott definitely did. If you compare Scott's Core lyrics to what he did later on the difference is amazing.  What I miss most from Scott are his bridges (which were usually excellent) and more extensive vocal harmonies.  There are a lot of people that don't like multi-track vocal harmonies by the same singer since it doesnt translate as well to live, but this was something Scott did well on STP's records.  For example, the "ahhs" at the end of the bridge in Glide, or the harmonies in the chorus in Hello It's Late, or the harmonies on the word "love" in Adhesive; these are areas that Scott owned like few other singers.  Scott still found ways to make songs sound amazing live even with less vocal harmonies (and yes I realize that the three tracks I just mentioned were not really performed live by classic STP).  By comparison, Jeff uses harmonies fairly sparingly and when they are there, the mix is a bit to low to make them impactful.  Overall, this absence makes Jeff's vocals less enjoyable than Scott's to me. 

Still, I can definitely get behind this incarnation of the band.  Its a great effort overall and STP is clearly on fire live right now.  I hope the boys continue to light things up and I have high hopes for the next album we get from them.