High Rise's total sales likely to never match STP's S/T album first week sales

[NakedSundayCrackerman]

he disappeared, asked for a higher percentage of tour revenue than the other three guys, wouldn't sign an agreement not to be late, then decided to steal the tour idea for his own solo band.

But oh those scheming bastard DeLeos!

[EyesOfDisarray]

What a lot of people don't understand is that if you have a trademark and somebody breaches it, if you don't protect it you can be deemed to have abandoned it, meaning you lose the right to it entirely. So if Scott breached contract and used the trademarks illegally, then they had no choice but to sue him for it, or it would be open season on STP trademarks.

These sorts of details are why rampant fan speculation on this sort of thing is pointless. We aren't lawyers, and most fans don't have a clue what they are talking about.

See, I didn't know that about the trademark and abandonment. I have no problem admitting it: I don't know what I'm talking about, because I'm not a lawyer. I wish I knew more about this, because I'd like more of an idea of how it's going to turn out.

[lovemachine97]

That's the whole point of protecting something, whether it is copyright or trademark--you have to police it and protect it. It's not like the government is going to bring charges.

[DeadandTrippin92]

To qoute myself: "I would say that the biggest challenge for the band is to undo all of the damage to the band's reputation and popularity that Scott caused the last few years. They will need to deal with a low attendence and lack of interest for some time solely because of Scott."

To quote myself to this ridiculous post again: "Can't put the blame solely on Scott, that is absolutely ridiculous.

If you want to blame anyone for the decline in popularity then blame the DeLeo's. There the ones who wanted to self produce Self Titled. If  Brendan O'Brien or any other solid producer had produced S/T it would have been more successful and a whole hell out of a lot better."

[Tyrant]

To qoute myself: "I would say that the biggest challenge for the band is to undo all of the damage to the band's reputation and popularity that Scott caused the last few years. They will need to deal with a low attendence and lack of interest for some time solely because of Scott."

How does that explain AOA or Talk Show?  A pattern is emerging that the other 3 members are not popular without Scott.  This wouldn't be a problem if sales and popularity isn't important to them, but judging by the lack of a follow-up to Talk Show and AOA's debut albums, it seems to be.

The fact is that they are not popular even with Scott these days. I'm sure, they need and want to be succesful. It's not a sin. I can't see how this contradicts any of my statements.

[DeadandTrippin92]

To qoute myself: "I would say that the biggest challenge for the band is to undo all of the damage to the band's reputation and popularity that Scott caused the last few years. They will need to deal with a low attendence and lack of interest for some time solely because of Scott."

How does that explain AOA or Talk Show?  A pattern is emerging that the other 3 members are not popular without Scott.  This wouldn't be a problem if sales and popularity isn't important to them, but judging by the lack of a follow-up to Talk Show and AOA's debut albums, it seems to be.

The fact is that they are not popular even with Scott these days. I'm sure, they need and want to be succesful. It's not a sin. I can't see how this contradicts any of my statements.

It all goes back to the release of Self Titled though, because STP had ALOT of momentum prior.

Self Titled was arguably the most anticipated rock album of the last 5-8 years when it was announced STP would be making a comeback album. It needed to have been produced by O'Brien or a proven producer, not the DeLeo's. If S/T had the production of prior efforts then we very likely wouldn't even be having this conversation right now. The DeLeo's production was amateur at best, they should have listened to Atlantics requests in this particular situation. They also fucked up by releasing 1/4 of the album on Amazon before it was released and most people became disappointed/ and started losing interest before the album even dropped.

[Chris Pepper]

To qoute myself: "I would say that the biggest challenge for the band is to undo all of the damage to the band's reputation and popularity that Scott caused the last few years. They will need to deal with a low attendence and lack of interest for some time solely because of Scott."

How does that explain AOA or Talk Show?  A pattern is emerging that the other 3 members are not popular without Scott.  This wouldn't be a problem if sales and popularity isn't important to them, but judging by the lack of a follow-up to Talk Show and AOA's debut albums, it seems to be.

The fact is that they are not popular even with Scott these days. I'm sure, they need and want to be succesful. It's not a sin. I can't see how this contradicts any of my statements.

There's not a huge appetite for any of the 90's bands right now.  There was a nice welcoming after a lengthy hiatus, but not sustainable.  AIC, Pumpkins, ect.  Hence, my argument vs. the Deleos' decision and just take some time off.  You need to get people to miss you a bit.  This scenario would've gone off much better if they just started a new band and incorporate STP in their setlists.  This decision was a mistake.  Wasn't difficult to see.  But now there's so much context, all you do is end up hurting the brand more and driving fans, like the one's on this board, crazy.  Too bad.

[Slither]

To qoute myself: "I would say that the biggest challenge for the band is to undo all of the damage to the band's reputation and popularity that Scott caused the last few years. They will need to deal with a low attendence and lack of interest for some time solely because of Scott."

How does that explain AOA or Talk Show?  A pattern is emerging that the other 3 members are not popular without Scott.  This wouldn't be a problem if sales and popularity isn't important to them, but judging by the lack of a follow-up to Talk Show and AOA's debut albums, it seems to be.

The fact is that they are not popular even with Scott these days. I'm sure, they need and want to be succesful. It's not a sin. I can't see how this contradicts any of my statements.

I don't understand why this is accepted as fact. Selling 65,000 copies in your first week is pretty damn good for a band way past their prime in an era where people dont buy CDs anymore. S/T clocked in at #2 on the charts its first week and BTL was a #1 hit single. You can't compare eras, only contemporaries in a given period of time. The reality is that the numerical value of your album sales mean nothing these days because people don't buy albums anymore. How those numbers stack up against other artists releasing music is, while still not entirely important anymore, is certainly more significant. Also, and I can't speak for everyone in different parts of the country/world, but I heard BTL and TALO almost every day on the radio that summer. To write off S/T as unsuccesful and unpopular just because it didn't sell as many records as its predecessors is complete bullshit.

[lovemachine97]

To qoute myself: "I would say that the biggest challenge for the band is to undo all of the damage to the band's reputation and popularity that Scott caused the last few years. They will need to deal with a low attendence and lack of interest for some time solely because of Scott."

How does that explain AOA or Talk Show?  A pattern is emerging that the other 3 members are not popular without Scott.  This wouldn't be a problem if sales and popularity isn't important to them, but judging by the lack of a follow-up to Talk Show and AOA's debut albums, it seems to be.

The fact is that they are not popular even with Scott these days. I'm sure, they need and want to be succesful. It's not a sin. I can't see how this contradicts any of my statements.

It all goes back to the release of Self Titled though, because STP had ALOT of momentum prior.

Self Titled was arguably the most anticipated rock album of the last 5-8 years when it was announced STP would be making a comeback album. It needed to have been produced by O'Brien or a proven producer, not the DeLeo's. If S/T had the production of prior efforts then we very likely wouldn't even be having this conversation right now. The DeLeo's production was amateur at best, they should have listened to Atlantics requests in this particular situation. They also fucked up by releasing 1/4 of the album on Amazon before it was released and most people became disappointed/ and started losing interest before the album even dropped.

I take issue with the "amateur" production idea. Talk Show, Stone Temple Pilots, truANT, and High Rise all sound alright sonically. I graciously admit that there is a common thread of a sound through all of those, whereas Brendan O'Brien's really good at each album sounding different, no matter who he is producing. But a LOT Of producer's albums have a "sound" to them.

The production is good. The mastering? Well, pretty much all albums of the last 10 or so years have been mastered terribly, except for Chinese Democracy and a few others.

However, where self-producing is a problem is in songwriting. Producers want to pull the best group of songs out of you that they can--especially Brendan, who is notoriously big on making sure the songs are there. Not having someone there squeezing the best songs they can is where the real problem lies.

High Rise suffers similarly. As I have said, Brendan would not have let them release an EP. Just like the new Pearl Jam, he would have had them wait til they could get together again. Pearl Jam did 6 or 7 songs for Lightning Bolt, then a year and a half later finished the album. He would have recognized the lack of a true single and had them get back together, take more time to write, and put out a full album in a year or two.

[Chris Pepper]

To qoute myself: "I would say that the biggest challenge for the band is to undo all of the damage to the band's reputation and popularity that Scott caused the last few years. They will need to deal with a low attendence and lack of interest for some time solely because of Scott."

How does that explain AOA or Talk Show?  A pattern is emerging that the other 3 members are not popular without Scott.  This wouldn't be a problem if sales and popularity isn't important to them, but judging by the lack of a follow-up to Talk Show and AOA's debut albums, it seems to be.

The fact is that they are not popular even with Scott these days. I'm sure, they need and want to be succesful. It's not a sin. I can't see how this contradicts any of my statements.

It all goes back to the release of Self Titled though, because STP had ALOT of momentum prior.

Self Titled was arguably the most anticipated rock album of the last 5-8 years when it was announced STP would be making a comeback album. It needed to have been produced by O'Brien or a proven producer, not the DeLeo's. If S/T had the production of prior efforts then we very likely wouldn't even be having this conversation right now. The DeLeo's production was amateur at best, they should have listened to Atlantics requests in this particular situation. They also fucked up by releasing 1/4 of the album on Amazon before it was released and most people became disappointed/ and started losing interest before the album even dropped.

I take issue with the "amateur" production idea. Talk Show, Stone Temple Pilots, truANT, and High Rise all sound alright sonically. I graciously admit that there is a common thread of a sound through all of those, whereas Brendan O'Brien's really good at each album sounding different, no matter who he is producing. But a LOT Of producer's albums have a "sound" to them.

The production is good. The mastering? Well, pretty much all albums of the last 10 or so years have been mastered terribly, except for Chinese Democracy and a few others.

However, where self-producing is a problem is in songwriting. Producers want to pull the best group of songs out of you that they can--especially Brendan, who is notoriously big on making sure the songs are there. Not having someone there squeezing the best songs they can is where the real problem lies.

High Rise suffers similarly. As I have said, Brendan would not have let them release an EP. Just like the new Pearl Jam, he would have had them wait til they could get together again. Pearl Jam did 6 or 7 songs for Lightning Bolt, then a year and a half later finished the album. He would have recognized the lack of a true single and had them get back together, take more time to write, and put out a full album in a year or two.

Yes to all of this. 

[Tyrant]

To qoute myself: "I would say that the biggest challenge for the band is to undo all of the damage to the band's reputation and popularity that Scott caused the last few years. They will need to deal with a low attendence and lack of interest for some time solely because of Scott."

How does that explain AOA or Talk Show?  A pattern is emerging that the other 3 members are not popular without Scott.  This wouldn't be a problem if sales and popularity isn't important to them, but judging by the lack of a follow-up to Talk Show and AOA's debut albums, it seems to be.

The fact is that they are not popular even with Scott these days. I'm sure, they need and want to be succesful. It's not a sin. I can't see how this contradicts any of my statements.

I don't understand why this is accepted as fact. Selling 65,000 copies in your first week is pretty damn good for a band way past their prime in an era where people dont buy CDs anymore. S/T clocked in at #2 on the charts its first week and BTL was a #1 hit single. You can't compare eras, only contemporaries in a given period of time. The reality is that the numerical value of your album sales mean nothing these days because people don't buy albums anymore. How those numbers stack up against other artists releasing music is, while still not entirely important anymore, is certainly more significant. Also, and I can't speak for everyone in different parts of the country/world, but I heard BTL and TALO almost every day on the radio that summer. To write off S/T as unsuccesful and unpopular just because it didn't sell as many records as its predecessors is complete bullshit.

I have no complaints against Self-Titled. I actually bashed people who give a shit about album sales in one of my previous posts. I'm talking about the overall downfall of a public interest during the last few years caused by Scott's behaviour, his late and, more importantly, very poor performances. They pretty much went through sold out (or at least filled) big venues to half empty clubs within 5 years.

[RhettButler]

To qoute myself: "I would say that the biggest challenge for the band is to undo all of the damage to the band's reputation and popularity that Scott caused the last few years. They will need to deal with a low attendence and lack of interest for some time solely because of Scott."

How does that explain AOA or Talk Show?  A pattern is emerging that the other 3 members are not popular without Scott.  This wouldn't be a problem if sales and popularity isn't important to them, but judging by the lack of a follow-up to Talk Show and AOA's debut albums, it seems to be.

The fact is that they are not popular even with Scott these days. I'm sure, they need and want to be succesful. It's not a sin. I can't see how this contradicts any of my statements.

There's not a huge appetite for any of the 90's bands right now.  There was a nice welcoming after a lengthy hiatus, but not sustainable.  AIC, Pumpkins, ect.  Hence, my argument vs. the Deleos' decision and just take some time off.  You need to get people to miss you a bit.  This scenario would've gone off much better if they just started a new band and incorporate STP in their setlists.  This decision was a mistake.  Wasn't difficult to see.  But now there's so much context, all you do is end up hurting the brand more and driving fans, like the one's on this board, crazy.  Too bad.

The s/t was hardly one of the most anticipated rock albums of the past decade and that said, no rock band from the 1990s (Soundgarden, AIC, Pearl Jam, NIN, Smashing Pumpkins), or any rock band for that matter is going to sell more than 400-500k, tops. Even someone hugely popular like Lady Ga Ga won't sell more than 2 million albums. The days of huge album sales are over. It wouldn't have mattered who produced the s/t, it was going to sell what it was going to sell.


As for the future of STP--let's wait and see. I'd like to see some stats on the new single and see how future singles do. Also, I think that if STP do release a full album on a major and it gets a good push, it could do okay. But keep in mind very few, if any rock bands, new or old-school, go platinum this day in age.

[Slither]

To qoute myself: "I would say that the biggest challenge for the band is to undo all of the damage to the band's reputation and popularity that Scott caused the last few years. They will need to deal with a low attendence and lack of interest for some time solely because of Scott."

How does that explain AOA or Talk Show?  A pattern is emerging that the other 3 members are not popular without Scott.  This wouldn't be a problem if sales and popularity isn't important to them, but judging by the lack of a follow-up to Talk Show and AOA's debut albums, it seems to be.

The fact is that they are not popular even with Scott these days. I'm sure, they need and want to be succesful. It's not a sin. I can't see how this contradicts any of my statements.

I don't understand why this is accepted as fact. Selling 65,000 copies in your first week is pretty damn good for a band way past their prime in an era where people dont buy CDs anymore. S/T clocked in at #2 on the charts its first week and BTL was a #1 hit single. You can't compare eras, only contemporaries in a given period of time. The reality is that the numerical value of your album sales mean nothing these days because people don't buy albums anymore. How those numbers stack up against other artists releasing music is, while still not entirely important anymore, is certainly more significant. Also, and I can't speak for everyone in different parts of the country/world, but I heard BTL and TALO almost every day on the radio that summer. To write off S/T as unsuccesful and unpopular just because it didn't sell as many records as its predecessors is complete bullshit.

I have no complaints against Self-Titled. I actually bashed people who give a shit about album sales in one of my previous posts. I'm talking about the overall downfall of a public interest during the last few years caused by Scott's behaviour, his late and, more importantly, very poor performances. They pretty much went through sold out (or at least filled) big venues to half empty clubs within 5 years.

In that case I agree with you. But I honestly don't think his poor performances, while undoubtely tarnishing the legacy of STP, have had any barometer on their popularity since these performances were on a tour that should have never been embarked upon in the first place. They essentially repeated the same tour they did in 2008 with no new album or promotion. Who would wanna go see that?

[MAJOR METAL]

Were the album downloads from amazon and itunes included in this number?

[HelloItsLate]

But I honestly don't think his poor performances, while undoubtely tarnishing the legacy of STP, have had any barometer on their popularity since these performances were on a tour that should have never been embarked upon in the first place. They essentially repeated the same tour they did in 2008 with no new album or promotion. Who would wanna go see that?

People who enjoy seeing a great band perform live.