September 20, 2024, 01:44:41 PM

Author Topic: Full Bethlehem Sands Show On YouTube!  (Read 11119 times)

STEAK

  • Contributors
  • Sky Captain
  • ******
  • Posts: 748
    • View Profile
Re: Full Bethlehem Sands Show On YouTube!
« Reply #45 on: September 06, 2013, 09:15:23 AM »
Not bad for a cover band.

Don't you mean not bad for the actual band with a cover singer?

Well, it's all semantics really.  I'm just exaggerating the point a bit.
BUT, "Cover bands play songs written and recorded by other artists." Since the songs (lyrics) were written AND recorded by Scott, that makes anyone else singing them a cover.  So, whether they're a cover band or an actual band with a cover singer, it's all the same to me. 

Don't get me wrong... I actually like Chester, but my nostalgia for "what once was" isn't going to delude me into seeing this performance as anything more than a bunch of cover songs (and one original).

By that same token, Scott's out there doing cover songs too then, right? Because Scott didn't write and record those guitar, bass, and drum lines.

If 3/4 of the people who wrote and recorded these songs playing with a different singer is a cover band, then 1/4 of the people who wrote and recorded it playing with a different bassist, drummer, and guitarist(s) is a cover band too.

Whenever Scott sings an STP song (be it with VR or Wildabouts) it's a cover, but both band puts their own twist on it (obviously done better by VR*).  Neither band is trying play chord for chord with STP's original (while STP+Chester is, both musically and vocally). 

Also, if we're breaking things down... there are basically TWO components to the music... lyrics which are sung, and music which is played.  Scott wrote the lyrics AND sang them as well, while it took THREE people to write the music and play it.  So, if any one person were more important than the rest, it'd be Scott (giving Scott 50% of STP's songs, while the rest of the guys carry 16.6% each).

*EDIT
Most cover bands market themselves with some play on the original band's name.  So STP with Chester is basically doing just that.  Scott has toured under his name, VR, or Scott Weiland & The Wildabouts.   If Scott went all Axl, calling himself STP, then I'd think that was ridiculous as well.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2013, 09:24:11 AM by STEAK »
"Hey there... how's your steak?"

Pingfah

  • Contributors
  • Sky Captain
  • ******
  • Posts: 2162
    • View Profile
Re: Full Bethlehem Sands Show On YouTube!
« Reply #46 on: September 06, 2013, 09:23:13 AM »

Whenever Scott sings an STP song (be it with VR or Wildabouts) it's a cover, but both band puts their own twist on it (obviously done better by VR*).

There's really not much in it. Slash ruins every STP song he plays, VR's STP covers were, without exception, complete trash.

STEAK

  • Contributors
  • Sky Captain
  • ******
  • Posts: 748
    • View Profile
Re: Full Bethlehem Sands Show On YouTube!
« Reply #47 on: September 06, 2013, 09:28:58 AM »

Whenever Scott sings an STP song (be it with VR or Wildabouts) it's a cover, but both band puts their own twist on it (obviously done better by VR*).

There's really not much in it. Slash ruins every STP song he plays, VR's STP covers were, without exception, complete trash.

I kinda agree. 

Although, I did like VR's harder take on some STP songs, but they were inconsistent.  As far as The Wildabouts, most of their STP covers make me feel like I'm settling, but there have been a few times where Scott changes the speed or tempo of the song live, and I prefer it to STP's "greatest hits" live version.
"Hey there... how's your steak?"

EyesOfDisarray

  • Contributors
  • Sky Captain
  • ******
  • Posts: 1217
    • View Profile
Re: Full Bethlehem Sands Show On YouTube!
« Reply #48 on: September 06, 2013, 01:11:02 PM »
Also, if we're breaking things down... there are basically TWO components to the music... lyrics which are sung, and music which is played.  Scott wrote the lyrics AND sang them as well, while it took THREE people to write the music and play it.  So, if any one person were more important than the rest, it'd be Scott (giving Scott 50% of STP's songs, while the rest of the guys carry 16.6% each).

As a musician, and someone who has both sung vocals AND played guitar in a band, all of which I had written, I take exception to this. While the singer is the band member the audience connects most with on a conscious level, it's not as cut and dry as vocals and music. It really depends on the band's dynamic... whether the band markets themselves as the singer being the main attraction and the band a supporting cast, like Bruce Springsteen and the E-Street Band. But this was never "Scott Weiland and the Scott Temple Pilots". STP is a band of four guys, and each of them is 25% important -- they all signed off to this in their Agreement. If you replace the E-Street Band as the music part of Bruce Springsteen, it's still Bruce Springsteen. But if you replace Rob, Dean, and Eric, it's no longer Stone Temple Pilots. It's Scott Weiland and the Reacharounds.

So in STP, it's not a two-part formula, there are FOUR components: drummer, singer, bass player, guitar player.

Sklashboombash

  • Contributors
  • Sky Captain
  • ******
  • Posts: 2190
    • View Profile
Re: Full Bethlehem Sands Show On YouTube!
« Reply #49 on: September 06, 2013, 02:43:08 PM »
I’ll be at the show tonight, so I’ll have a better feel for it after tonight.
Based on the videos though, the best analogy I can give is...Alice In Chains...

William Duvall can sing the hell out of those songs...he sings them well...(almost too well at times)...but he’s no Layne. There’s a certain quality to Layne’s voice.
Chester singing these songs well, hits all the notes, etc but Scott has very specific nuances to his voice and delivery.

I can totally see fans coming away from these shows saying this is the best they’ve sounded in a long time, especially with Chester being able to reach certain notes that Scott has come up short on recently, but like AIC, it’ll feel like something is missing.

For what it’s worth...I am a fan of Chester and LP and of course, I’m happy to see the guys (Deleos/Kretz) making music again.
I’m excited to see them tonight.

STP: 07.31.00 | 08.04.01 | 10.24.01 | 04.23.02 | 10.11.02 | 05.31.08 | 09.05.10
SW: 11.30.11 | 03.12.13 | 08.29.14 | 03.10.15
VR: 05.28.04 | 05.18.07 || AoA: 02.01.07
CheSTP: 09.06.13 | 04.25.15 | 09.20.15 || JeffTP: 07.28.18 | 09.15.19

STEAK

  • Contributors
  • Sky Captain
  • ******
  • Posts: 748
    • View Profile
Re: Full Bethlehem Sands Show On YouTube!
« Reply #50 on: September 06, 2013, 03:23:22 PM »
Also, if we're breaking things down... there are basically TWO components to the music... lyrics which are sung, and music which is played.  Scott wrote the lyrics AND sang them as well, while it took THREE people to write the music and play it.  So, if any one person were more important than the rest, it'd be Scott (giving Scott 50% of STP's songs, while the rest of the guys carry 16.6% each).

As a musician, and someone who has both sung vocals AND played guitar in a band, all of which I had written, I take exception to this. While the singer is the band member the audience connects most with on a conscious level, it's not as cut and dry as vocals and music. It really depends on the band's dynamic... whether the band markets themselves as the singer being the main attraction and the band a supporting cast, like Bruce Springsteen and the E-Street Band. But this was never "Scott Weiland and the Scott Temple Pilots". STP is a band of four guys, and each of them is 25% important -- they all signed off to this in their Agreement. If you replace the E-Street Band as the music part of Bruce Springsteen, it's still Bruce Springsteen. But if you replace Rob, Dean, and Eric, it's no longer Stone Temple Pilots. It's Scott Weiland and the Reacharounds.

So in STP, it's not a two-part formula, there are FOUR components: drummer, singer, bass player, guitar player.

If each person is "equally" important (25%), then replacing a drummer would be the exact same as replacing the singer/song writer? 

So when Steven Tyler was having a fallout with the rest of the guys in Aerosmith, if they tried to replace Tyler, he'd just be some replaceable cog, right?  His unique voice, style, and showmanship are just as easily be replaced as a musical instrument?  Or look at Axl Rose... Guns N Roses has had more than their share of replacements, but Axl was no more important than any of the GnR members throughout the years? Not that I consider Axl alone GnR, but it's a BIT more than just being the guy "the audience connected with the most on a conscious level".

Either way, it's a lot easier to find someone to replace an instrument than it is to replace a singer/songwriter. These bands don't market themselves as "Lead Singer with band members" or Band Member A is the "main attraction"...  They're all just bands, so it's through their music, their performances, and their personalities that they differentiate themselves, thus standing out as individuals within the band... the fans do the rest.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2013, 03:25:36 PM by STEAK »
"Hey there... how's your steak?"

Pingfah

  • Contributors
  • Sky Captain
  • ******
  • Posts: 2162
    • View Profile
Re: Full Bethlehem Sands Show On YouTube!
« Reply #51 on: September 06, 2013, 04:02:02 PM »
This is a completely stupid argument. Every STP song is different, each song had differing amounts of input from different members. In some cases the music was completely written before Scott even got to start his lyrics and melody, in rare cases Scott wrote the music, in other cases another band member/s wrote the lyrics or melody and the music.

Trying to put a percentage of worth on an individual band member is completely petty and absurd! Just take this new band for what it is.

Stop That Pigeon

  • Contributors
  • Sky Captain
  • ******
  • Posts: 1119
    • View Profile
Re: Full Bethlehem Sands Show On YouTube!
« Reply #52 on: September 06, 2013, 04:14:24 PM »
Trying to put a percentage of worth on an individual band member is completely petty and absurd! Just take this new band for what it is.

Agreed, it's too simplistic.



If each person is "equally" important (25%), then replacing a drummer would be the exact same as replacing the singer/song writer?


For many acts, no. But for a group like STP that has a very unique dynamic, you have to judge it differently imo. Same as with Zeppelin - replacing Bonzo would have been a very big deal indeed.



Chester singing these songs well, hits all the notes, etc but Scott has very specific nuances to his voice and delivery.


Absolutely, no question. The first 5 albums and performances like HoB 2000 are pretty much untouchable imo. I don't judge CB by those standards - I'm just looking for something worthy and a little bit above AoA (which was the next best thing to vintage STP in my book).


I think we have that and it's the best we're going to get so let's celebrate it. That's all.

EyesOfDisarray

  • Contributors
  • Sky Captain
  • ******
  • Posts: 1217
    • View Profile
Re: Full Bethlehem Sands Show On YouTube!
« Reply #53 on: September 06, 2013, 04:40:20 PM »
Also, if we're breaking things down... there are basically TWO components to the music... lyrics which are sung, and music which is played.  Scott wrote the lyrics AND sang them as well, while it took THREE people to write the music and play it.  So, if any one person were more important than the rest, it'd be Scott (giving Scott 50% of STP's songs, while the rest of the guys carry 16.6% each).

As a musician, and someone who has both sung vocals AND played guitar in a band, all of which I had written, I take exception to this. While the singer is the band member the audience connects most with on a conscious level, it's not as cut and dry as vocals and music. It really depends on the band's dynamic... whether the band markets themselves as the singer being the main attraction and the band a supporting cast, like Bruce Springsteen and the E-Street Band. But this was never "Scott Weiland and the Scott Temple Pilots". STP is a band of four guys, and each of them is 25% important -- they all signed off to this in their Agreement. If you replace the E-Street Band as the music part of Bruce Springsteen, it's still Bruce Springsteen. But if you replace Rob, Dean, and Eric, it's no longer Stone Temple Pilots. It's Scott Weiland and the Reacharounds.

So in STP, it's not a two-part formula, there are FOUR components: drummer, singer, bass player, guitar player.

If each person is "equally" important (25%), then replacing a drummer would be the exact same as replacing the singer/song writer? 

So when Steven Tyler was having a fallout with the rest of the guys in Aerosmith, if they tried to replace Tyler, he'd just be some replaceable cog, right?  His unique voice, style, and showmanship are just as easily be replaced as a musical instrument?  Or look at Axl Rose... Guns N Roses has had more than their share of replacements, but Axl was no more important than any of the GnR members throughout the years? Not that I consider Axl alone GnR, but it's a BIT more than just being the guy "the audience connected with the most on a conscious level".

Either way, it's a lot easier to find someone to replace an instrument than it is to replace a singer/songwriter. These bands don't market themselves as "Lead Singer with band members" or Band Member A is the "main attraction"...  They're all just bands, so it's through their music, their performances, and their personalities that they differentiate themselves, thus standing out as individuals within the band... the fans do the rest.

You make some good points, but I still think your overall assessment is off.

You're right: Replacing a drummer would not be as difficult as replacing a singer. If STP reunited in 08 with a different drummer behind the kit, it would've been quite an adjustment too -- we would all miss Eric's signature grooves that laid the backbone for all those songs we love. But it wouldn't be as much of an adjustment as replacing Scott.

The 25% is probably more of a diplomatic tool to keep the peace in the band and help resolve disputes at times like these. Keep in mind: Scott himself agreed to this.

In reality, the numbers are probably a little bit different, but the idea that it's 50% singer and 50% the other guys in the band is just absurd. At least for a band like STP, where each member is a tremendous musician in his own right and brings something uniquely theirs but also symbiotically elevates the group as a whole to another level. (See: Led Zeppelin. Was Jimmy Page 16.6% of Led Zeppelin?)

Think about it: In 96, they created an agreement that gave all four band members equal "importance" in the band, and they signed off on the same terms again years later. There's a reason for that. Regardless of what anyone thinks each member's importance or contribution is, it takes all four guys to do STP. That's where the 25% comes from.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2013, 04:45:36 PM by EyesOfDisarray »

HelloItsLate

  • Pilot
  • *****
  • Posts: 292
  • Arrivals
    • View Profile
Re: Full Bethlehem Sands Show On YouTube!
« Reply #54 on: September 06, 2013, 05:25:42 PM »
I’ve now watched all of these clips. Let me start by saying that I love Scott, Dean, Robert, and Eric equally, and I have supported this venture with enthusiasm from Day One. I was completely blown away by “All the Young Dudes,” and I also love “Out of Time.”
 
OK. I liked seeing and hearing some of my favorite STP songs performed with Chester, no question. I think he performed very well, is extremely talented, and has a great voice (although I do prefer Scott’s deeper, grittier, angst-ridden sound, hands down). Anyway, if I am being totally honest with myself – and it is hard for me to say this – I think I want to like this more than I actually do.
 
This is not to say I won’t enjoy STP with CB’s performances going forward. I look forward to the EP and I’ll be going to a few of the upcoming shows. I know I’ll have a great time seeing and hearing the songs I love so much being performed so well. I am committed to keeping a completely open mind, and maybe when I see them live I’ll feel differently. I love these guys and I will continue to support them – all of them – no matter what. But…
 
 
God. Damn. It.

lovemachine97

  • Contributors
  • Sky Captain
  • ******
  • Posts: 1479
    • View Profile
Re: Full Bethlehem Sands Show On YouTube!
« Reply #55 on: September 06, 2013, 07:47:14 PM »
I think that when someone has studied and played music, their ear is often a bit more trained to actively listen and identify things. That's not to say they're better or like music better, but they can often identify things in songs that the average listener isn't in tune to or noticing--or at least if they're noticing can't pinpoint what they are noticing.

I have played guitar since 1995, and spent a long time working in a music store. I played in a band for years, and two of the guys in the band have gone on to play music professionally (my drummer is now the drummer for Brazilian band CSS, my singer and close friend is in Rock of Ages at the Venetian in Vegas).

I think it is pretty obvious that the singer is the most identifiable person in the band for most people. Why? They tend to be "out front," but words are the easiest thing to identify with and mimic when listening to music. The easiest thing to latch onto is to start singing with the song. But are most people also picking up their instrument and learning the guitar parts like I often do? No. Do most people listen to, say, Foo Fighters' "Times Like These" and ask themselves, "Hey, that riff doesn't sound like 4/4 time. What is that?" and then proceed to count it and realize that it's in 7/4 time?

Probably not. However, most of you have probably subconsciously noticed things about songs that you just can't put your finger on. With singers, language, and melody, it's easier to put your finger on things.

I'll give you an example. If someone told you that David Lee Roth and Van Halen were back together and did an album and said, "There's one song on there that sounds like it came right off an old record," and played you "She's the Woman," your initial reaction (And mine) would be, "Hell yes. This does sound like classic VH." Here's the song: [size=78%]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj3ul98CnRg[/size]

But here's where some people may notice something is a bit different and not know what it is. First, listen to the backup vocals during the chorus ("She's the woman / She's the woman"). David Lee Roth is doing his own backup vocals (about 50 seconds into the video). But it sounds fine--he's the singer!

But wait--this song actually predates the first VH album. It was part of the demo Gene Simmons did for VH. So now listen to the chorus with the original lineup: [/size][size=78%]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=og7hRK8kBdg[/size] (about 40 seconds in). Most people probably didn't even know that was missing--but isn't that the classic VH sound? Michael Anthony was a HUGE part of the vocals in the band, yet the average listener, if it was never pointed out, might not ever realize it.

Now, I could take this further and point out that there is a much more rounded attack to the bass (check out the intro in both versions) when Michael Anthony is playing versus Wolfgang Van Halen, and that's because Wolfie plays with a pick and Michael plays with his fingers.

But all of these subtleties make a big difference in the final product. I notice that Eric is so laid back--so Bonham--that he's almost out of time. He hits each drum at the last possible second before the song falls apart. This was a huge thing to overcome for Ray Luzier when he stepped in, because he is on top of the beat, like Matt Cameron--but STP songs don't work that way. When Duff played STP's stuff, he never had the bass lines right. Robert's lines color all of their songs in beautiful ways. If that were to leave, people may not be able to point out that that is what is different, but it would be different. Same goes for Dean and his unique chording and solo style.

It's just that a difference in a singer is much easier to identify as different. But the rest of the band makes a huge difference too.

Chris Pepper

  • Contributors
  • Sky Captain
  • ******
  • Posts: 1050
    • View Profile
Re: Full Bethlehem Sands Show On YouTube!
« Reply #56 on: September 06, 2013, 07:53:48 PM »
Also, if we're breaking things down... there are basically TWO components to the music... lyrics which are sung, and music which is played.  Scott wrote the lyrics AND sang them as well, while it took THREE people to write the music and play it.  So, if any one person were more important than the rest, it'd be Scott (giving Scott 50% of STP's songs, while the rest of the guys carry 16.6% each).

As a musician, and someone who has both sung vocals AND played guitar in a band, all of which I had written, I take exception to this. While the singer is the band member the audience connects most with on a conscious level, it's not as cut and dry as vocals and music. It really depends on the band's dynamic... whether the band markets themselves as the singer being the main attraction and the band a supporting cast, like Bruce Springsteen and the E-Street Band. But this was never "Scott Weiland and the Scott Temple Pilots". STP is a band of four guys, and each of them is 25% important -- they all signed off to this in their Agreement. If you replace the E-Street Band as the music part of Bruce Springsteen, it's still Bruce Springsteen. But if you replace Rob, Dean, and Eric, it's no longer Stone Temple Pilots. It's Scott Weiland and the Reacharounds.

So in STP, it's not a two-part formula, there are FOUR components: drummer, singer, bass player, guitar player.

If each person is "equally" important (25%), then replacing a drummer would be the exact same as replacing the singer/song writer? 

So when Steven Tyler was having a fallout with the rest of the guys in Aerosmith, if they tried to replace Tyler, he'd just be some replaceable cog, right?  His unique voice, style, and showmanship are just as easily be replaced as a musical instrument?  Or look at Axl Rose... Guns N Roses has had more than their share of replacements, but Axl was no more important than any of the GnR members throughout the years? Not that I consider Axl alone GnR, but it's a BIT more than just being the guy "the audience connected with the most on a conscious level".

Either way, it's a lot easier to find someone to replace an instrument than it is to replace a singer/songwriter. These bands don't market themselves as "Lead Singer with band members" or Band Member A is the "main attraction"...  They're all just bands, so it's through their music, their performances, and their personalities that they differentiate themselves, thus standing out as individuals within the band... the fans do the rest.

You make some good points, but I still think your overall assessment is off.

You're right: Replacing a drummer would not be as difficult as replacing a singer. If STP reunited in 08 with a different drummer behind the kit, it would've been quite an adjustment too -- we would all miss Eric's signature grooves that laid the backbone for all those songs we love. But it wouldn't be as much of an adjustment as replacing Scott.

The 25% is probably more of a diplomatic tool to keep the peace in the band and help resolve disputes at times like these. Keep in mind: Scott himself agreed to this.

In reality, the numbers are probably a little bit different, but the idea that it's 50% singer and 50% the other guys in the band is just absurd. At least for a band like STP, where each member is a tremendous musician in his own right and brings something uniquely theirs but also symbiotically elevates the group as a whole to another level. (See: Led Zeppelin. Was Jimmy Page 16.6% of Led Zeppelin?)

Think about it: In 96, they created an agreement that gave all four band members equal "importance" in the band, and they signed off on the same terms again years later. There's a reason for that. Regardless of what anyone thinks each member's importance or contribution is, it takes all four guys to do STP. That's where the 25% comes from.

I'm more in the camp of lead singer and the rest of band.  The 25% agreement was for harmony, not sure it's a fair representation of worth to band.  That being said, I do think they bring the best out of music when they're together.  But S/T felt like they just weren't inspired which was a first for me.  Maybe missing Brenden O Brien was the answer.  But if they aren't inspired to work with each other they should have taken some time off to refill the tank.  Work with other musicians, ect.  They're doing this but under extreme circumstances which is what I've been cry crying about.  The Deleos decision was foolish on so many levels.   

Chris Pepper

  • Contributors
  • Sky Captain
  • ******
  • Posts: 1050
    • View Profile
Re: Full Bethlehem Sands Show On YouTube!
« Reply #57 on: September 06, 2013, 07:54:07 PM »
I think that when someone has studied and played music, their ear is often a bit more trained to actively listen and identify things. That's not to say they're better or like music better, but they can often identify things in songs that the average listener isn't in tune to or noticing--or at least if they're noticing can't pinpoint what they are noticing.

I have played guitar since 1995, and spent a long time working in a music store. I played in a band for years, and two of the guys in the band have gone on to play music professionally (my drummer is now the drummer for Brazilian band CSS, my singer and close friend is in Rock of Ages at the Venetian in Vegas).

I think it is pretty obvious that the singer is the most identifiable person in the band for most people. Why? They tend to be "out front," but words are the easiest thing to identify with and mimic when listening to music. The easiest thing to latch onto is to start singing with the song. But are most people also picking up their instrument and learning the guitar parts like I often do? No. Do most people listen to, say, Foo Fighters' "Times Like These" and ask themselves, "Hey, that riff doesn't sound like 4/4 time. What is that?" and then proceed to count it and realize that it's in 7/4 time?

Probably not. However, most of you have probably subconsciously noticed things about songs that you just can't put your finger on. With singers, language, and melody, it's easier to put your finger on things.

I'll give you an example. If someone told you that David Lee Roth and Van Halen were back together and did an album and said, "There's one song on there that sounds like it came right off an old record," and played you "She's the Woman," your initial reaction (And mine) would be, "Hell yes. This does sound like classic VH." Here's the song: [size=78%]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj3ul98CnRg[/size]

But here's where some people may notice something is a bit different and not know what it is. First, listen to the backup vocals during the chorus ("She's the woman / She's the woman"). David Lee Roth is doing his own backup vocals (about 50 seconds into the video). But it sounds fine--he's the singer!

But wait--this song actually predates the first VH album. It was part of the demo Gene Simmons did for VH. So now listen to the chorus with the original lineup: [/size][size=78%]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=og7hRK8kBdg[/size] (about 40 seconds in). Most people probably didn't even know that was missing--but isn't that the classic VH sound? Michael Anthony was a HUGE part of the vocals in the band, yet the average listener, if it was never pointed out, might not ever realize it.

Now, I could take this further and point out that there is a much more rounded attack to the bass (check out the intro in both versions) when Michael Anthony is playing versus Wolfgang Van Halen, and that's because Wolfie plays with a pick and Michael plays with his fingers.

But all of these subtleties make a big difference in the final product. I notice that Eric is so laid back--so Bonham--that he's almost out of time. He hits each drum at the last possible second before the song falls apart. This was a huge thing to overcome for Ray Luzier when he stepped in, because he is on top of the beat, like Matt Cameron--but STP songs don't work that way. When Duff played STP's stuff, he never had the bass lines right. Robert's lines color all of their songs in beautiful ways. If that were to leave, people may not be able to point out that that is what is different, but it would be different. Same goes for Dean and his unique chording and solo style.

It's just that a difference in a singer is much easier to identify as different. But the rest of the band makes a huge difference too.

Cool post.

Son Of Sam

  • Contributors
  • Pilot
  • *****
  • Posts: 278
    • View Profile
Re: Full Bethlehem Sands Show On YouTube!
« Reply #58 on: September 06, 2013, 09:08:43 PM »
what was the attendance like? back in the army of anyone days the average was about 500

Son Of Sam

  • Contributors
  • Pilot
  • *****
  • Posts: 278
    • View Profile
Re: Full Bethlehem Sands Show On YouTube!
« Reply #59 on: September 06, 2013, 09:46:53 PM »
damn chester is nailing that shit! scott who??