3-1-2013 - The Machine Shop - Flint, MI

[STP92]

I'll never get the "WHY DO YOU STILL COME HERE!?!?!?" sentiment for anyone being critical of the band/Weiland on this site.  Everyone here was, or still is, a huge fan of this band and its individual members.  Critical comments do not negate 20 years of being a fan.

This^   Finally, someone says something rational

Well said to you too, Vaporized.  Sums up my feelings exactly. 

Fair enough. I wasn't trying to ask in an obnoxious way, I was just curious. I could care less who posts here and who doesn't.

[Aaron]

Oh, my contact was told directly by 2/4 members of the band that they know they don't "have it" but as long as fans kept coming to the shows, they were okay with 'business as usual.' Well, I guess enough fans stopped going to the shows and it was enough to cause some strife.

This is why I'm not that upset by the firing.  I personally have more fun at the SW solo shows than STPs latest shows, and I am hopeful that **if** STP finds a new singer that it invigorates the Deleos/Kretz, because what they have been doing the last 5 years isnt working, and its obvious to most people not looking through rose-colored glasses.

[Aaron]

Crackerman sounds great.  Wicked Garden does not need keyboards, I hate when they do shit like that to STP/VR songs (like Do It For The Kids).  Naked Sunday is hit and miss, Scott seems to forget where he is at some point and go all whiny/I don't like the instrumental breakdown in the verses.

Agreed.  Crackerman sounds fucking awesome. 

Also, its nice hearing the rockers at a faster tempo instead of the nursery-rhyme speed that STP has been playing a lot of these tunes. 

[Blue]

Also, its nice hearing the rockers at a faster tempo instead of the nursery-rhyme speed that STP has been playing a lot of these tunes.

Indeed. It's funny that after all that time the DeLeo's used Scott as the scapegoat for things like stale setlists and slow tempos, he's the one who going out and giving the fans the setlist they wanted and the energy they wanted.

But yeah, there's obviously something wrong with STPs chemistry. That last set of shows seemed pretty blase. It's a shame. They showed some real fire in '09, sorry it didn't stick.

[StoneTempleBrett]

I always knew the money played a big part in STP reuniting, but for the first couple of years of the reunion I actually thought they cared about each other and did care about building on their legacy.  I enjoyed the self-titled album, and I'm not the type who enjoys every comeback album (I hated Soundgarden's King Animal).  But after that came out the way they've handled themselves over the last few years has made me realize it's all about the money and they don't give a shit about each other or the fans.  I'm just glad I got an album I really like out of it, and a lot of great shows.  I could tell though at least year's show in September in Irvine (the 2nd to last show) that the fire just wasn't there and that they were probably done.

[Slither]

and appeared to get confused when his hands were full of stuff (Gatorade, paper, sunglasses, scarf and Sharpie).

I feel awful for saying this but this just made me laugh out loud laughing. Though based on this and Vaporized's posts it seems like Scotty definitely has some long-term lingering effects of all his drug abuse. Pretty sad.

Anyway, though I don't agree with all of the stuff Vaporized said (the kindness and sincerity they show during meet and greets all being an act), everything else makes a lot of sense. I think the reunion was done in good faith at the beginning and the boys were generally excited to be putting out new material and performing together. But I'm sure all the time on the road together re-pumped that bad blood thru their systems. Though I think the decision to record separately from Scott was more of a mutual decision than rob dean and kretz not wanting to spend time with him. Scott did the same thing for Libertad.  I think it has more to do with Scott being lazy than anything.

In general tho, This is why I don't want another STP record anytime soon. I still believe originally it was a genuine effort to reunite and make a new album. I can't see these guys possibly tarnishing their legacy by putting something out half-assed. I think that's exactly what we'd get if they put out another one in the near future, as its clear they had recently just been phoning it in

Btw Brett, you HATED King Animal? Wasn't anywhere close to SG's older stuff obviously but I thought it had some great songs on it (non-state actor, by crooked steps, bones of birds, rowing)

[pjstp]

I think summer 2011 was the last time they really had fun on stage. I enjoyed those shows so much not just because of the music, but chemistry between the band was strong and you could tell they were having a good time. When I saw them in November when Scott showed up 2 hours late they sounded great as usual, but it was a weird show. Dean was pissed at Scott. Great show, but not the same vibe (kind of like how Brett describes the Irvine show). I think ever since that cancellation in 2011 things have gone downhill for STP relationship wise.


Sure, The Wildabouts aren't nearly as good as STP, but it's nice to see Scott having fun again. I'm really excited  to see him and i'm really excited to see what's in store for The Wildabouts this year. I think they sound pretty good in these videos. Yeah it sounds raw and a little unrehearsed, but often times those are the best shows. And set list wise I have no complaints, and I think he'll add in even more Core/Purple songs as the tour progresses. I'm surprised that Unglued hasn't made an appearance yet.

[StoneTempleBrett]

and appeared to get confused when his hands were full of stuff (Gatorade, paper, sunglasses, scarf and Sharpie).

I feel awful for saying this but this just made me laugh out loud laughing. Though based on this and Vaporized's posts it seems like Scotty definitely has some long-term lingering effects of all his drug abuse. Pretty sad.

Anyway, though I don't agree with all of the stuff Vaporized said (the kindness and sincerity they show during meet and greets all being an act), everything else makes a lot of sense. I think the reunion was done in good faith at the beginning and the boys were generally excited to be putting out new material and performing together. But I'm sure all the time on the road together re-pumped that bad blood thru their systems. Though I think the decision to record separately from Scott was more of a mutual decision than rob dean and kretz not wanting to spend time with him. Scott did the same thing for Libertad.  I think it has more to do with Scott being lazy than anything.

In general tho, This is why I don't want another STP record anytime soon. I still believe originally it was a genuine effort to reunite and make a new album. I can't see these guys possibly tarnishing their legacy by putting something out half-assed. I think that's exactly what we'd get if they put out another one in the near future, as its clear they had recently just been phoning it in

Btw Brett, you HATED King Animal? Wasn't anywhere close to SG's older stuff obviously but I thought it had some great songs on it (non-state actor, by crooked steps, bones of birds, rowing)

Soundgarden's album just sounds forced to me, big time.  The 'rockers' sound really forced, like old men trying to sound young.  Especially Been Away Too Long, the lyrics and the way Cornell sings it makes me borderline laugh.  Cornell sounds rough on Non-State Actor, it's just a boring generic rock song.  By Crooked Steps is one of the stronger songs on the album but it sounds too much like them trying to reproduce Superunknown.  Blood on the Valley Floor is boring and repetitive not a good melody, another attempt at trying to reproduce Superunknown.  Attrition and Halfway There sound like side project songs thrown onto the album (Attrition actually was a solo Shepherd cut and Halfway There sounds like solo Cornell).  Worse Dreams they basically came up with a chorus and Cornell mumbles his way through nothing verses, song goes nowhere.  Eyelid's Mouth and Taree are both pretty boring middle of the road old man rock.  Black Saturday starts promising but goes nowhere, no real big hook and the instrumental breakdown sounds tacked on.  Rowing has some good stuff.  A Thousand Days Before is AMAZING, by far the best song on the album.  Bones of Birds has a good melody, it's fine.  Overall Chris Cornell just has nothing to say on the album, he's old and happy now, so when he tries to sound angry it's forced and his old man rock lyrics are mediocre too, and boring melodies.  The fact that they spent 2 fucking years on it makes it even worse.

STP's self-titled has catchy songs with memorable tight melodies (no sloppy arrangements/songs like Worse Dreams and Black Saturday).  Even my least favorite song on the album, Bagman, I can instantly recall the melody.  STP were still able to rock on self-titled (Between the Lines, Take a Load Off, Fast As I Can, Hazy Daze) without it sounding forced, Scott still sounded as angry and tortured as ever on all of those songs especially Take A Load Off.  Fantastic melody to that song too.  Great lyrics on the album about loneliness and heartbreak, like Dare If You Dare/Maver/Peacoat.  I know Cinnamon is divisive, but god damn that riff and melody!  First Kiss On Mars/Hickory Dichotomy were cool homages to STP's heroes, I get burned out on Huckleberry Crumble but it's not a bad song.  Overall Scott still being a mess made for a pretty inspired album, something you don't hear from the well adjusted types in their 40's like Chris Cornell.  Overall I only think KA has one song (A Thousand Days Before) which is a new Soundgarden classic, while self-titled has at least 3-4 new STP classics (Between The Lines, Take A Load Off, and Maver).  If that ends up being STP's final album I'm happy they went out on a good note, but damn it sucks they couldn't do more since there was still a lot of creativity left in the tank.

[pjstp]

I 100% agree with you about Self Titled. I like King Animal but it's not nearly as good as S/T.

[lovemachine97]

They admitted money was the driving force for the reunion. "Do you wanna make a million dollars?"

As far as how the band interacts and how fans are treated--I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. Being angry at the band for just half-assing it and doing it for "the money" and not caring about fans because they're willing to take their money is about the most ludicrous thing to ba mad at them for. No one is forcing STP to play, but demand is quite an enticement. Even more importantly, no one forces an fan to pay and go to a concert. When they reunited with no new material and just played the hits set, I had no interest in going. I'd seen them 7 times already. But they played in Paso Robles and a buddy asked if I wanted to take a mini vacation--he lives in Santa Barbara--and he offered to by my ticket, so I went. He'd never seen them.

I saw them again after I graduated college. My parents got me tickets as a congratulations present. It was at the Joint in Vegas and it's where I saw them in my favorite show.

Otherwise, STP's prices aren't worth what I'm getting in return.

In that same period I saw Weiland live and the VR Reunion.

These guys all have egos. And they have to. You can't perform at your best in any form of entertainment without confidence. It comes with the territory. We all know Dean has admitted to substance abuse and that the other guys may have had issues doesn't surprise me. Scott has to take the glory with the consequences. Busting Weiland is big news. Weiland on drugs is big news. Performing poorly is big news.

But he also gets all the adulation. Eric Kretz being busted is not big news. But he does t get much praise either.

I'm sure these guys enjoy each other deep down in small doses. All the bad stuff is exacerbated by touring together. I'm sure there is also lots of bad blood. Scott has done some fucked up shit. But I'd bet the other guys have too.

I'm no longer young enough to idolize people. But that also means I'm old enough to appreciate certain things. People are complicated. I love things about these guys yet recognize the things they do that aren't so good. That's okay. But these guys are not stealing from me. I can, ya know, think for myself.

[StoneTempleBrett]

I think summer 2011 was the last time they really had fun on stage. I enjoyed those shows so much not just because of the music, but chemistry between the band was strong and you could tell they were having a good time. When I saw them in November when Scott showed up 2 hours late they sounded great as usual, but it was a weird show. Dean was pissed at Scott. Great show, but not the same vibe (kind of like how Brett describes the Irvine show). I think ever since that cancellation in 2011 things have gone downhill for STP relationship wise.


Sure, The Wildabouts aren't nearly as good as STP, but it's nice to see Scott having fun again. I'm really excited  to see him and i'm really excited to see what's in store for The Wildabouts this year. I think they sound pretty good in these videos. Yeah it sounds raw and a little unrehearsed, but often times those are the best shows. And set list wise I have no complaints, and I think he'll add in even more Core/Purple songs as the tour progresses. I'm surprised that Unglued hasn't made an appearance yet.

I saw some great STP shows, but the only time it seemed like they truly were getting along was the LA show I went to in October 2010.  Scott was sober and had just done the at home rehab thing with Bob Forrest.  It's the only time I've seen him sober besides seeing him with Velvet Revolver in 2006, and you could tell the band were having a good time.  The shows I saw at the Hollywood Bowl in 2008, New Years Even 2008 going on 2009, and the July 2009 club show in LA were all great too though (Hollywood Bowl was best show I've ever been to).  The only STP shows I went to that seemed off were June 2010 at the KROQ Weenie Roast in Irvine and September 2012 in Irvine at Epicenter.  In June 2010 Scott was just drunk out of his mind, and the September 2012 show just felt boring and uninspired since it was the same stale setlist/no new songs.

[VegasCrackerman]

I saw some great STP shows, but the only time it seemed like they truly were getting along was the LA show I went to in October 2010.  Scott was sober and had just done the at home rehab thing with Bob Forrest.  It's the only time I've seen him sober besides seeing him with Velvet Revolver in 2006, and you could tell the band were having a good time.  The shows I saw at the Hollywood Bowl in 2008, New Years Even 2008 going on 2009, and the July 2009 club show in LA were all great too though (Hollywood Bowl was best show I've ever been to).  The only STP shows I went to that seemed off were June 2010 at the KROQ Weenie Roast in Irvine and September 2012 in Irvine at Epicenter.  In June 2010 Scott was just drunk out of his mind, and the September 2012 show just felt boring and uninspired since it was the same stale setlist/no new songs.

Same old setlist at IRVINE?  Dude, they played HOLLYWOOD BITCH, MEATPLOW, BLACK AGAIN, and TUMBLE.

http://youtu.be/S6Cr2OMnTvc

[StoneTempleBrett]

I saw some great STP shows, but the only time it seemed like they truly were getting along was the LA show I went to in October 2010.  Scott was sober and had just done the at home rehab thing with Bob Forrest.  It's the only time I've seen him sober besides seeing him with Velvet Revolver in 2006, and you could tell the band were having a good time.  The shows I saw at the Hollywood Bowl in 2008, New Years Even 2008 going on 2009, and the July 2009 club show in LA were all great too though (Hollywood Bowl was best show I've ever been to).  The only STP shows I went to that seemed off were June 2010 at the KROQ Weenie Roast in Irvine and September 2012 in Irvine at Epicenter.  In June 2010 Scott was just drunk out of his mind, and the September 2012 show just felt boring and uninspired since it was the same stale setlist/no new songs.

Same old setlist at IRVINE?  Dude, they played HOLLYWOOD BITCH, MEATPLOW, BLACK AGAIN, and TUMBLE.

http://youtu.be/S6Cr2OMnTvc

They didn't play Black Again.  The setlist on setlist.fm is incorrect, I distinctly remember yelling for them to play it since they had been, but they didn't.  I'd seen them do Tumble in the Rough before, same venue in 2010 at Weenie Roast.  But hey, they played Hollywood Bitch and Meatplow!  Give them a fucking medal!

The show was fine, but it just felt really stale, ESPECIALLY compared to when I saw them in LA in October 2010.  To be on tour for no reason at all, no new album, just felt a bit off.  It was solely for the money, zero effort was put in.  I know you like to be positive about STP VegasCrackerman, I did too from 2008-2010, but it just is what it is.  I am really glad I got to see them one more time and was at the 2nd to last show, until whenever the next reunion is.  Still weird that they'd pose all happy at the end with their kids when they were a day away from their last show with Scott, shows that they must have really played nice/put an act on for the public.

[VelvetLounngeFly]

I saw some great STP shows, but the only time it seemed like they truly were getting along was the LA show I went to in October 2010.  Scott was sober and had just done the at home rehab thing with Bob Forrest.  It's the only time I've seen him sober besides seeing him with Velvet Revolver in 2006, and you could tell the band were having a good time.  The shows I saw at the Hollywood Bowl in 2008, New Years Even 2008 going on 2009, and the July 2009 club show in LA were all great too though (Hollywood Bowl was best show I've ever been to).  The only STP shows I went to that seemed off were June 2010 at the KROQ Weenie Roast in Irvine and September 2012 in Irvine at Epicenter.  In June 2010 Scott was just drunk out of his mind, and the September 2012 show just felt boring and uninspired since it was the same stale setlist/no new songs.

Same old setlist at IRVINE?  Dude, they played HOLLYWOOD BITCH, MEATPLOW, BLACK AGAIN, and TUMBLE.

http://youtu.be/S6Cr2OMnTvc

They didn't play Black Again.  The setlist on setlist.fm is incorrect, I distinctly remember yelling for them to play it since they had been, but they didn't.  I'd seen them do Tumble in the Rough before, same venue in 2010 at Weenie Roast.  But hey, they played Hollywood Bitch and Meatplow!  Give them a fucking medal!

The show was fine, but it just felt really stale, ESPECIALLY compared to when I saw them in LA in October 2010.  To be on tour for no reason at all, no new album, just felt a bit off.  It was solely for the money, zero effort was put in.  I know you like to be positive about STP VegasCrackerman, I did too from 2008-2010, but it just is what it is.  I am really glad I got to see them one more time and was at the 2nd to last show, until whenever the next reunion is.  Still weird that they'd pose all happy at the end with their kids when they were a day away from their last show with Scott, shows that they must have really played nice/put an act on for the public.

This is what I meant before when we butted head some much, Brett!
It wasn't just the VR reunion stuff.
I think the first gigs from the reunion were pretty cool.. Mostly odd with Scott's behavior, but it was still badass. They had a dark thing about then every time they hit the stage opening with Big Empty and Scott wearing the nicest suits a Rockstar could ever wear. It gave us goosebumps, confusion, shock, and joy; all until about the end of the reunion tour.
The gigs after that were constantly a hit or a miss, and the tour for self titled was just meh, in my opinion.

It's a damn shame that it had to come to this, but Scott has to be pulling some pretty fucked up shit we don't know about. It reminds me of a quote from Duff; although I can't really remember it word by word, but it was something along the lines of something really bad happening with Scott besides his relapse and he wasn't going to put his laundry out there cuz it was too personal to even talk about.

It's pretty unbelievable how he destroyed his chances with STP, and thanks to his incredible talent he managed to climb back on top with members of Guns N Roses who he looked up to back then. You would think he would get a clue of professional responsibility, but nope! Fucks up again! I know he isn't completely at fault, but his track record doesn't help him much in his favor. Suddenly, he managed to get back with STP... And here we are now; unbelievable.

Not a lot of rockstars get to pull of all of Scott's accomplishments, but when you constantly make ridiculous career choices, and stop giving a shit, all those accomplishments become NOTHING!
Think of all those radio hits.. Suddenly you're the punch line for every joke in music, and a dude that made paychecks by being a leader of a shitty generation he calls maggots and wears a clown mask on stage while he performs, is making fun of you for being a "lazy piece of shit".

Someone needs to give Scott a serious reality check. Make a fucking collage of his musical history and play it to him. Unlike some, I love his solo work and see 12BB as a modern version of Transformer, but I've always worried that this day will come where nobody wants to work with him. I mean, it's all good when it comes to him being able to put out more solo material, but he seems so uninspired lately. Hopefully all this mess pushes him to succeed even more, and that's all I can really hope for at this point.
His last solo tour blew my mind; I was amazed by how well his vocals were beginning to get back in shape.

It's hard to believe that this has happened to him, and I do hope Slash and them give him a second chance.. Only because STP having him back now will only make things worse. If VR were to get back together, hopefully he'd get the sense of not ever fucking up again, and eventually he'd get to work with both. Although at this point, that's delusional thinking.

[pjstp]

One more thing: Does anyone know of the Merch?
Was there anything cool/ anything at all? His promo poster would look cool on a t shirt.

I would like to know as well. Anyone?