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Author Topic: SWB at Gramercy Theatre - May 17th  (Read 51409 times)

Peebs

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Re: SWB at Gramercy Theatre - May 17th
« Reply #225 on: May 19, 2011, 10:18:00 PM »
exxxxxxxxxxxactly Aaron!
 
We all knew from the get go this wasn't gonna happen until 10:30. We're all kind of used to the 1/2 late start time. It's sort of standard.
At this juncture and even Scott himself admitting to Matt Pinfield that the only way to make money in the business (because CD's don't sell) is touring and performing you would think he would be more conscious of being on time & giving back.
He's not.
so whatever bad press he gets he brings it on himself, no one else. Unfortuately it also brings everyone else around him-Dean, Robert, Eric with him
If you don't like STP, then you're pretty much not American (from a MO message board)

Aaron

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Re: SWB at Gramercy Theatre - May 17th
« Reply #226 on: May 19, 2011, 10:36:06 PM »
I never said I was a "bigger fan" then anyone. But I guess me showing up, to shows, and buying his music and showing I care about him, his health is why when I met him I WAS introduced as "one of his biggest supporters". And its probably why he was incredibly kind when I was hanging out in his room with him. He knows I truely support him. And I'm sure, it must be nice to hear when so many people just want more more more from him.

He's not a robot. And I can't imagine how he was pulled in so many different ways Tuesday. "Scott, you gotta be here. Scott you have an interview. Scott so & so wants to speak with you. Scott you've got your signing, but don't take too long. Scott don't disapoint the poeple who are here to meet you & bought your book. Scott you've got a show to do hurry up. Scott don't leave, you've only go about 40 people left to sign for. Scott come on, the show is already late. Scott please stay & sign book. Scott, how much longer till you get here?"

I'm not making excuses. Just none of us know what he was dealing with. Especially the day of a book release. I already thought when the shows were announced the same day as the signings "He's gonna be so late to those shows. Hw can he do a signing & a show wuthout pissing off people?" They SHOULD have moved up the signing to 5pm. Plenty of time to do it all. Who was in charge of that, I've got no idea.

I don't disagree with any of this, but my response is this: If so many other artists can make things like this work out, why can't Scott?  I know he gets pulled 1000 different directions, and I can understand that excuse on occasion, but not virtually every appearance.  If he doesnt have a manager to keep him on time, then fire the manager and get a better one.  Its not like he cant afford it.   

I'm happy that you are happy with Scott.  But look around here.  There are a lot of big supporters here, past and present, that are feeling very neglected.  Scott needs a wakeup call, pure and simple.  Either he is unaware of how his actions are affecting his fans or he doesnt give a shit.  Either way, its a problem. 

If you want STP/Scott to play more shows more frequently and release more albums they need to learn to treat their fans better.  Period.  Otherwise dont be surprised when tour after tour interest wanes and shows are less and less populated.  Remember when they worked for their fans?  Remember 2000 when Scott got out of the pokey and had something to prove?  Remember all those TV appearances, interviews, surprise shows, etc.  Where is that guy?  STP would be bigger and better with that Scott Weiland at the helm, I promise you that.  I promise you that the average Joe seeing STP for the first time and watching them take the stage 90 min late wont be back.  And that is a problem, and it will catch up (more than it already has) with him/them if it continues. 

You are absolutely an asset to Scott, Weilandfan I am absolutely not taking that away from you.  However, so am I, so is Peebs, so is JugeSTP and all of the other hardcore STP fans that have been slighted in the past few years.  We deserve an artist that not only makes great music, but that cares about his fans that isnt just shaking us for money.  He can still be that person.   I dont mind paying $70+ a ticket to see Scott (i've done it on a number of occasions), but I expect a solid performance worth the hard earned money I paid.  Frankly, as of late, its very obvious that I work a lot harder for my money than Scott does.

andrew

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Re: SWB at Gramercy Theatre - May 17th
« Reply #227 on: May 19, 2011, 10:54:21 PM »
Bleeda blooda

STEAK

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Re: SWB at Gramercy Theatre - May 17th
« Reply #228 on: May 19, 2011, 11:04:04 PM »
There needs to be some kind of distinction between Scott and STP. 

There are 3 types of "fans"...
1. Hardcore STP fans that put up with Scott's solo work, just because they're fans of STP. 
2. The minority that just like his solo work, and dabble into some STP stuff because of him. 
3. And finally you have people who are fans of Scott Weiland as TWO SEPARATE ACTS (with two distinct styles).

Ideally he's playing for the latter two, and not the first one. Not that there's anything wrong with the first one, but as a solo act, he doesn't owe you shit.  They're completely separate bands, and there's no reason for him to play STP songs just for the people who went to the wrong show. 
"Hey there... how's your steak?"

CMCracker

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Re: SWB at Gramercy Theatre - May 17th
« Reply #229 on: May 19, 2011, 11:07:23 PM »
♪♫Give you all those diamonds, Give you more and more, Shattered all those lies, I bought You from the record store ♪♫

Drew06

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Re: SWB at Gramercy Theatre - May 17th
« Reply #230 on: May 19, 2011, 11:21:00 PM »
Seems like another train wreck. His shot at Eric makes zero sense. Lord knows you could knock Kretz's for not being the most technical drummer but coming from someone whose been playing drums close to 15 years I can't name many who keep a better pocket than Eric.

weilandfan

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Re: SWB at Gramercy Theatre - May 17th
« Reply #231 on: May 19, 2011, 11:29:58 PM »
There needs to be some kind of distinction between Scott and STP. 

There are 3 types of "fans"...
1. Hardcore STP fans that put up with Scott's solo work, just because they're fans of STP. 
2. The minority that just like his solo work, and dabble into some STP stuff because of him. 
3. And finally you have people who are fans of Scott Weiland as TWO SEPARATE ACTS (with two distinct styles).

Ideally he's playing for the latter two, and not the first one. Not that there's anything wrong with the first one, but as a solo act, he doesn't owe you shit.  They're completely separate bands, and there's no reason for him to play STP songs just for the people who went to the wrong show. 

EXACTLY! You think he wants to play STP songs on a solo performance. Fuckers been PERFORMING STP SONGS Since 08! Let him feel creative & ennergize his pasion for music by doing shit HE CAN'T DO ON A STP TOUR! I, love whatever he sings, but feel if he throws in VR/STP songs I get robbed of hearing songs I could hear that I never get to at a solo show.

Aaron

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Re: SWB at Gramercy Theatre - May 17th
« Reply #232 on: May 20, 2011, 12:56:58 AM »
Totally agree.  I would have no problem hearing no STP/VR songs at a solo tour, and I find the STP shouters there more than a bit annoying as well. 


Even though its a cover itself, how bad-ass would an acoustic "Somethings Must Go This Way" be?  A show of all 12BB/Happy tracks would make me very... happy :) (see what I did there?)

CritterTypeThing

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Re: SWB at Gramercy Theatre - May 17th
« Reply #233 on: May 20, 2011, 01:01:21 AM »
He had his band hanging all that time....his fans hanging. OH but I forgot he was hungry/had diarrhea/doing vocal exercises in the limo/finding a cure for cancer/creating world peace/it was Gramercy's fault/it was Barnes & nobles fault/it was Matt Pinfield's fault....but it's never Scott's fault.


I 100% agree Scott has faults in this event and others (if he really showed up 2+ hours late to the NJ signing too then he's certainly got faults in there too), but to absolutely put ALL the blame on him for this is a little overboard and I think it's a little stubborn to just ignore the concept of outside influences & obligations.

You keep passing things off as ass-licking excuses but that doesn't stop the fact that they're just as easily POSSIBILITIES as the picture you paint of him basically studying each situation of the day and saying "f@!k the fans".  It's not necessarily right or justified in the scheme of life, but from the first time we heard his set time wasn't till 10:30pm (which they made sure to keep us well informed), then expectations should have adjusted a bit signaling it's gonna be a late night.  I'm sure others were forced to make the same decision as you with leaving early, but seemed like many also chose to stick it out and just pour an extra cup of coffee Wednesday morning.


Cutting the fat for these piggy-backed events... he was about 40 minutes late to the signing and an hour late to hit stage.  But he signed every book AND played a full (specialized) set.  If that's enough to put you over the top then so be it.  To me, thinking upon Scott's history, I'd say that's actually pretty damn good.
Hold me closer.....closer.....let me go!

My STP Concertology:  6/22/01, 10/26/01, 4/21/02, 4/23/02, 5/18/08, 5/26/08, 5/31/08, 8/6/08, 8/8/08, 8/10/08, 7/17/09, 5/18/10, 9/3/10, 9/4/10, 7/25/11, 7/26/11, 9/10/11, 9/1/12, 5/6/18

Peebs

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Re: SWB at Gramercy Theatre - May 17th
« Reply #234 on: May 20, 2011, 01:03:40 AM »
this isn't about what he played, those drunken frat boys are not members here. And the set list wasn't Scott solo stuff (with the exception of unglued). No one here is complaining about that. I liked it, how much of it I heard. I got he was TRYING to pair the show with a book we just bought hours earlier. It was a great concept, probably would have gotten a better recption....if it started a hour earlier.
 
And I completely understand what Aaron is getting at-the 99-00 Scott was trying. Scott is no longer trying. With each passing year his shtick is wearing long time fans really thin. And he had "wranglers" on Tuesday. They brought him, late, so they aren't doing a very good job. Maybe another group of "yes" people. Who knows but that's something someone like him doesn't need.
 
Many bands do things for their fans, NIN, PJ for example. NIN only sold tickets through their website if you were a registerd member, membership was free. To avoid scapling all tix were will call only & you had to show ID. There was no-join our fan club for $45.00 (membership due early) to get "presale" tickets which weren't grat seats anyway BUT if you were a SUPERFAN fork over $500 for a seat in the first 4 rows. But you get a free t-shirt! If your a SUPERDUPERFAN fork over $1000 for a "meet & greet" which basically you just bought signatures and a fake laminate (worth zero dollars) for a grand.
If you don't like STP, then you're pretty much not American (from a MO message board)

CritterTypeThing

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Re: SWB at Gramercy Theatre - May 17th
« Reply #235 on: May 20, 2011, 01:18:18 AM »

There needs to be some kind of distinction between Scott and STP. 

There are 3 types of "fans"...
1. Hardcore STP fans that put up with Scott's solo work, just because they're fans of STP. 
2. The minority that just like his solo work, and dabble into some STP stuff because of him. 
3. And finally you have people who are fans of Scott Weiland as TWO SEPARATE ACTS (with two distinct styles).

Ideally he's playing for the latter two, and not the first one. Not that there's anything wrong with the first one, but as a solo act, he doesn't owe you shit.  They're completely separate bands, and there's no reason for him to play STP songs just for the people who went to the wrong show. 

Probably most level statement on this thread.  I've said it since the first solo show I saw and I'll say it before the next solo show he does too....but it's shocking how many people show up expecting 90% STP & VR songs and wind up just walking to the back/bar when they realize they might only hear 1 or 2 of such songs by the end of the night.  Unfortunately, in this show, said people wound up being a bunch of neanderthals that started to act like asses when they realized they weren't gonna get a chance to mosh to Sex Type Thing.

Best part is when they went into Roadhouse Blues, the exact same people acted like Scott was the greatest thing alive.  And once the jam was over, they went right back to jerk mode.

For Scott and his camp, Tuesday seems to have been a crash course in Risk Management.


As for the show, I thought it was actually the best option to entertain all 3 groups.  It met the Solo fans with previously heard Solo songs "But Not Tonight" and "Fame" (even if covers at that), plus wasn't the first 1 or 2 songs ones he wrote?  But then his take on covers which fits the bill for people who appreciate Scott's art as well as people that may be casual solo fans because they're gonna atleast hear songs they know.  And then you cap it off with an STP gem.
Hold me closer.....closer.....let me go!

My STP Concertology:  6/22/01, 10/26/01, 4/21/02, 4/23/02, 5/18/08, 5/26/08, 5/31/08, 8/6/08, 8/8/08, 8/10/08, 7/17/09, 5/18/10, 9/3/10, 9/4/10, 7/25/11, 7/26/11, 9/10/11, 9/1/12, 5/6/18

Peebs

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Re: SWB at Gramercy Theatre - May 17th
« Reply #236 on: May 20, 2011, 01:24:03 AM »
He had his band hanging all that time....his fans hanging. OH but I forgot he was hungry/had diarrhea/doing vocal exercises in the limo/finding a cure for cancer/creating world peace/it was Gramercy's fault/it was Barnes & nobles fault/it was Matt Pinfield's fault....but it's never Scott's fault.


I 100% agree Scott has faults in this event and others (if he really showed up 2+ hours late to the NJ signing too then he's certainly got faults in there too), but to absolutely put ALL the blame on him for this is a little overboard and I think it's a little stubborn to just ignore the concept of outside influences & obligations.

You keep passing things off as ass-licking excuses but that doesn't stop the fact that they're just as easily POSSIBILITIES as the picture you paint of him basically studying each situation of the day and saying "f@!k the fans".  It's not necessarily right or justified in the scheme of life, but from the first time we heard his set time wasn't till 10:30pm (which they made sure to keep us well informed), then expectations should have adjusted a bit signaling it's gonna be a late night.  I'm sure others were forced to make the same decision as you with leaving early, but seemed like many also chose to stick it out and just pour an extra cup of coffee Wednesday morning.


Cutting the fat for these piggy-backed events... he was about 40 minutes late to the signing and an hour late to hit stage.  But he signed every book AND played a full (specialized) set.  If that's enough to put you over the top then so be it.  To me, thinking upon Scott's history, I'd say that's actually pretty damn good.

He was 2 hours late in NJ, Casper was there. He will be here to throw in his 2 cents.

He signed until the obligated 10 pm. Which covered anyone in the penned in area. The B&N ppl are experts at this, this wasn't their first book signing crowd. He played what...10 songs? On what planet is that a "full set"?? That wouldn't even make a full CD. I'm sure th set would of been longer given he showed up on time.

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he was about 40 minutes late to the signing and an hour late to hit stage
and you find this acceptable? Maybe you should be my boss because if I was 40 minutes or a hour late to work, it's not acceptable.

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but seemed like many also chose to stick it out and just pour an extra cup of coffee Wednesday morning.
Not many, they were streaming out. They were standing outside the venue hailing cabs and complaining. Out of my group of 5....two stayed only to get screwed with train schedules and trust me...they were NOT happy.

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You keep passing things off as ass-licking excuses but that doesn't stop the fact that they're just as easily POSSIBILITIES
vocal exercises in the limo is a possibility? LMAO Sorry that one still makes me laugh.


Don't worry hun, you can still keep on believing the sunshines out of his ass.
If you don't like STP, then you're pretty much not American (from a MO message board)

CritterTypeThing

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Re: SWB at Gramercy Theatre - May 17th
« Reply #237 on: May 20, 2011, 01:29:25 AM »
"Remember when they worked for their fans?  Remember 2000 when Scott got out of the pokey and had something to prove?  Remember all those TV appearances, interviews, surprise shows, etc.  Where is that guy?  STP would be bigger and better with that Scott Weiland at the helm, I promise you that."


I definitely feel you on that.  The surprise shows alone in the small venues with the much more randomized set lists, definitely gives off a much more "paying it back" vibe.  If only I had been more aware of the band back then, I would've eaten that alllllll up.

What I think makes some matters worse in regards to lateness and whatnot, is that it seems the tri-state area gets it the worst.  Don't know if its Scott's hobbies in the NYC area, obviously labels and mgmt have larger local offices than most others too.  But the one or two people that are saing he does things ALL the time.  I mean I keep a fair eye on the tour section and it seems that solo and STP the past couple years have had much more success hitting stage on time if not early (8:30pm for lots of shows when the average headlining spot is generally 9pm).

But anyway, you do make a great point when you look at the ups and downs.  That period definitely breahed the essence that they had more to prove.
Hold me closer.....closer.....let me go!

My STP Concertology:  6/22/01, 10/26/01, 4/21/02, 4/23/02, 5/18/08, 5/26/08, 5/31/08, 8/6/08, 8/8/08, 8/10/08, 7/17/09, 5/18/10, 9/3/10, 9/4/10, 7/25/11, 7/26/11, 9/10/11, 9/1/12, 5/6/18

CritterTypeThing

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Re: SWB at Gramercy Theatre - May 17th
« Reply #238 on: May 20, 2011, 02:38:22 AM »
He was 2 hours late in NJ, Casper was there. He will be here to throw in his 2 cents.

Then that's messed up.   He should've gotten to the area much earlier in the day to plan ahead for traffic.  That's a Scott Weiland (and/or his camp) fail.



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He signed until the obligated 10 pm. Which covered anyone in the penned in area. 

You said your friend was at the back and he got through everyone......if he managed to sign every book and still leave by 10pm then yes I agree it shouldn't have taken so long to hit the stage, but that doesn't give the answer WHY it took so long.  There could be a mixture of legitmite reasons in there.  You wanna string him up that's fine...we have different patience threshholds.


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He played what...10 songs? On what planet is that a "full set"??

I don't count by songs.  I counted by length of entertainment.  They played just about an hour and a half I think (longer than some recent STP shows I've seen and heard of).  Some songs turned into jams which takes up time.  The impromptu beatles & roadhouse segments (not sure if they were planned or not, but they seemed pretty improvised).  And the personalization of introing songs with stories and relation to how it ties into him.  Yea I consider that pretty full of a performance.  And when was the last time you counted the # of songs on cds?  Average, unfortunately enough, these days is a good 12 or 13.

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and you find this acceptable? Maybe you should be my boss

For a rock star with a pretty legitimate "star" resume? Yes.  For Scott, compared to some of the horrors of lateness (see PNC, or see NJ book signing) or cancellations (see getting busted in NY)...absolutely.   For you or my dayjob which isn't being a rock star, no.  Legitimate Rock stars don't have bosses reading their punch cards.  It's part of the territory.  His punishment though is having to pay for playing past curfew, and having to hear bitching & moaning as feedback (if any makes it back to him).  I highly doubt he enjoyed coming on stage and getting booed for 3 straight songs.  Perhaps it will sink in for next time, just like PNC sunk in and they paid it back with a killer Jones Beach set. Perhaps not. 

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Not many, they were streaming out.

I saw atleast 2 large groups of Jersey Shore outcasts leaving early too, bitching that there weren't STP songs.  Just because you and some others left for transportation, doesn't mean everyone who left did for the same reason.  And sweety, no one made you choose the train at 1 over the early AM train.  That was your decision.  But the venue was still very much crowded at the end of the show.

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vocal exercises in the limo is a possibility? 

okay well I for one thought his vocals were off for the first couple of songs, so I doubt he did any warmups prior to hitting stage, but as a possibility,  I actually think its a fair statemtn from whoever mentioned it.  In the sense that it could've taken up 5-10 minutes of an hour delay.  Do I think it's likely? No.  Of the many possibilities that have been mentioned in this thread, do I think all (or even most) are likely?  No.  But can any of them be possible?  For the most part yes.  So I won't just pass full judgement and take it as a full on slight from Scott to me.


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Don't worry hun, you can still keep on believing the sunshines out of his ass.

I am absolutely a huge fan of Scott Weiland's art.  Scott Weiland in many of his personal actions and decisions....Not whatsoever.  I absolutely know he can do wrong and know he's messed up plenty of times.  But I don't go around expecting any celebrity to be dead on time.  I don't know the life of a celebrity, or schedule of one.  But I assume one who has a solo career, a band career, a book schedule, interview schedule, likely other industry meetings (label, mgmt, etc),  is even trying to build a fashion career, a family life, and some need for personal time at some point (whether for good or bad) might have a pretty friggin crazy lineup to attend to.  So on this day, in NYC, for 40 minutes?  Yeah, I'm cutting a little slack.

 Ask the folks from the NJ signing if they would've taken 40 minutes?  I'm sure as hell they'd settle for 40 minutes compared to what they had.   Again......Fair?  No.  The way it is?  Yes.  Tailor certain expectations accordingly.  otherwise I'd say you're the one with the blinders. How does it go?  "Fool me once....."
Hold me closer.....closer.....let me go!

My STP Concertology:  6/22/01, 10/26/01, 4/21/02, 4/23/02, 5/18/08, 5/26/08, 5/31/08, 8/6/08, 8/8/08, 8/10/08, 7/17/09, 5/18/10, 9/3/10, 9/4/10, 7/25/11, 7/26/11, 9/10/11, 9/1/12, 5/6/18

Casual

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Re: SWB at Gramercy Theatre - May 17th
« Reply #239 on: May 20, 2011, 03:03:28 AM »
I never said he did vocal exercises in the limo.  I said he probably did them (at the venue) before the show because he isn't just gonna jump out of a limo after a book signing and go sing for 2 hours.   He probably needed some time to prepare.  But I misread your post too so I guess we are even.   I'm sorry that you feel Scott owes you more because you saw him from this or that era.  I always respected him as just a performer and never idolized him so I am not disappointed in anything.   I just support him and wish him the best.  I wouldn't be suprised if the tardiness is a passive-aggressive move because he resents doing signings.  I don't fault the guy for that.  Scott does what he does and that is why a lot of us like him.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2011, 03:06:08 AM by Casual »