STP - Victims of the Loudness War

[randallanddarcy]

The bottom line, for the STP album, is it sounds fine. It does not sound obnoxious to the ears. Go and listen to the first track off of PJ's "Backspacer": it leaps out of the speakers at you in all the wrong ways. It almost hurts the ears. Compare this to something like 'Cherub Rock' by the Pumpkins, which also leaps out of the speakers at you, but is done in a way sympathetic to both people's ears and the music.

[Silvergun132]

The bottom line, for the STP album, is it sounds fine. It does not sound obnoxious to the ears. Go and listen to the first track off of PJ's "Backspacer": it leaps out of the speakers at you in all the wrong ways. It almost hurts the ears. Compare this to something like 'Cherub Rock' by the Pumpkins, which also leaps out of the speakers at you, but is done in a way sympathetic to both people's ears and the music.

Wow, really??  I disagree about Backspacer, but then again I'm no expert.  No big deal either, I think the production on Backspacer and STP's latest is pretty solid.  To each their own though.  I'll have to listen to Springsteen's album again to see how "loud" it really is.  I do recall some of his fans saying the same thing about his last two albums...

[dog_day_prophet]

And who produced both of Springsteen's last two records? Brendan O'Brien.

I'm just sayin...

[randallanddarcy]

And who produced both of Springsteen's last two records? Brendan O'Brien.

I'm just sayin...

He did PJ's Backspacer, too. But it's not his fault, anyway. The 'loudness' issue is usually part of the MASTERING process, not the mixing. Most records can be produced and mixed by the same or different people, but mastering is its own science, and most records are NOT mastered by the same people who mix them or produce them.

Go through your album collection and check. You'll find nearly all of your albums by American bands can be produced and mixed by a load of people, but you'll also find that all of your albums were MASTERED by one of the same 10 or so names.

[dog_day_prophet]

But it's not his fault, anyway. The 'loudness' issue is usually part of the MASTERING process, not the mixing.

However, any loudness problems have to do with the MASTERING process, not the actual mixing process.

Why don't you read the thread.

My point by pointing out that Brendan produced those Springsteen records was precisely that it doesn't matter who produces or mixes, but who masters.

[randallanddarcy]

But it's not his fault, anyway. The 'loudness' issue is usually part of the MASTERING process, not the mixing.

However, any loudness problems have to do with the MASTERING process, not the actual mixing process.

Why don't you read the thread.

My point by pointing out that Brendan produced those Springsteen records was precisely that it doesn't matter who produces or mixes, but who masters.

Hey, dude, it's alright. It's just the internet. And we're agreeing!
Edit: And you're right, that post above was very long and I didn't read all of it. However, I'm glad to have my opinions reinforced by an independent third party!

[Silvergun132]

And who produced both of Springsteen's last two records? Brendan O'Brien.

I'm just sayin...

Yeah I know he produced both of Springsteen's last albums, that's what I was alluding to.  It's no big deal man, was just contributing to the discussion.  I'm sure you know a lot more about production than I do.  I was just mainly trying to get across that Backspacer and STP's newest album sound great IMO from a production standpoint.  That's all.

[IMJ]

STP's newest album sound great IMO from a production standpoint.  That's all.

Awesome album, but some of the production elements are awful. Ironically, a lot of this is being addressed here.
It's a great thread that is making me rethink my verbage when discussing my opinions of albums like Tiny Music or many of the tracks on No. 4.

[Eijoo]

a very interesting topic...i need more research regarding this matter coz the deleos are very  much into vintage sounds which i'm not sure about their approach on this album though

[CharlieBoston]

Well, that just kills me. I just watched the YouTube video, followed by the Nirvana "If Smells Like Team Spirit was released today" video. So sad...

[musica]

Audacity?? Really? Get a real recording software program, bro.

I run a Beringer 8-track mini-mixer into an M-Audio Delta 44 PCI sound card with Adobe Audition 3 as my software. All on a PC.

Pot, meet kettle.  

[John]

Audacity?? Really? Get a real recording software program, bro.

I run a Beringer 8-track mini-mixer into an M-Audio Delta 44 PCI sound card with Adobe Audition 3 as my software. All on a PC.

Pot, meet kettle.  

What are you attempting to point out?

[Eijoo]

but i dont think the're victims. the're the purveyors of rock n roll. thanks for drowning grunge into the pit of dirt

[musica]

Audacity?? Really? Get a real recording software program, bro.

I run a Beringer 8-track mini-mixer into an M-Audio Delta 44 PCI sound card with Adobe Audition 3 as my software. All on a PC.

Pot, meet kettle.  

What are you attempting to point out?

Behringer doesn't exactly have a good reputation for making anything better than entry level equipment.  Audition is a decent program, but it's deliberately geared more toward a consumer level.  At least they don't misrepresent themselves like Behringer - they deliver what they promise, but it's not top of the line by any stretch.  PCs generally are not as stable as Macs for pro-level production, but they are more convenient because of Macs' learning curve and price.  I guess someone, if they knew what they were doing, could get decent results from this combination of equipment, but that's a lot of strikes against them from the start.  

I'm not sure how great the set-up is at any rate although maybe those details were just left out.  Running an 8 channel mixer (regardless of being Behringer or not) into a soundcard doesn't seem like it would allow for actual multi-track simultaneous recording; you'd need more A/D converters to accommodate all 8 of your mixer channels (but he may be using those and didn't mention it as I'm not familiar with that particular soundcard or what it can handle).  Again, if someone is careful and really pays attention to detail, they could probably get a clean recording out of all that, but most people who can afford more wouldn't want to deal with the headaches.  

My point was someone using budget equipment and software criticizing someone for using a free program.  And Audacity has many of the same functional features of Audition anyway.  Audition has a lot of other nice features as well, but I don't really use them as I prefer doing more detailed work using other software.  In other words, I wouldn't use Audition for anything more than the same basic operations that I would use Audacity for.  On the other hand, I'm not into Pro Tools either so I can at least agree with that much.  The funny part, other than someone using a similar program criticizing the original poster for using Audacity, is that it's a criticism without merit anyway.  Although I wouldn't use Audacity for serious editing or recording, it probably would be accurate and effective in visually analyzing loudness levels as the original poster used it for.  It served its purpose well in that instance.

[John]

Behringer doesn't exactly have a good reputation for making anything better than entry level equipment.

It's true.  It's a shame really.  Their stuff used to be better many years ago.

Audition is a decent program, but it's deliberately geared more toward a consumer level.

I'd argue that outside of midi/sequencing support (where Audition is just terrible), it's just as good at anything else when it comes to recording and mixing multi-track audio.  It's all preference at that point.  There is a decent amount of software these days that is more than capable of turning out a high-quality product as long as the person operating it knows a few things and isn't deaf.  I'd also argue Auditions spectral tools are better than almost anything else.

PCs generally are not as stable as Macs for pro-level production...

Ehhhh.  I think this is mostly bullshit at this point.  Old silly arguments die hard, I guess.  Nobody is using Windows 95 any more.  The endless Mac vs. PC debate is not worth the time.  Use what you want.  Results are all that matters.

Audition has a lot of other nice features as well, but I don't really use them as I prefer doing more detailed work using other software.

And that's a preference.  At the end of the day, many many programs can open various audio files/formats, and let you edit them, analyze them, mix them together, and/or apply various effects.