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Author Topic: Weiland Backs Obama  (Read 26845 times)

StoneTempleBrett

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Re: Weiland Backs Obama
« Reply #60 on: October 25, 2008, 09:50:10 PM »
Quote from: "Lazy Divey"
You can't be serious.  Fox news is well known to be pro republican...the owner is a republician a vast majority of their "news" is usually anti democratic...fear mongering and talking points from the white house.  They've been a very large part of the Obama smear campaign.  I mean come on...one of their "journalists" called Obama's fist jab a "terrorist fist bump".  It's completely right wing. When I want news I turn to CNN...when I want a good laugh I go to fox news.

http://crooksandliars.com/2008/07/25/mc ... ng-points/

http://www.stateofthemedia.org/2007/nar ... =7&media=6
Then what are MSNBC, CNN, and ABC News?  Answer me that you hypocrite.  They lean left far more than Fox News leans right, and if Fox News didn't lean right, nobody would.  I mean honestly what do you want, the entire media to be sucking Barack's dick?  They haven't been part of a smear campaign, the Wright and Ayers stuff is worth discussing, they discuss it more than they probably would if other channels covered it too, but since they're the only news organization covering it they have to do a lot of it.  Sure Sean Hannity may be ultra right, but that's why Colmes is on the show and many other liberals go on too.  O'Reilly is a moderate Republican who always allows the opposing viewpoint to be heard and he is still often critical of the Republican party.  Shephard Smith and Brit Hume and straight men, they report the news.  Neil Cavuto mainly talks about the economy, so I mean, who the hell on Fox News are you referring to besides Sean Hannity?  The O'Reilly Factor has as many liberals on as they do conservatives.  Also just because one nut called it a terrorist fist pump doesn't mean that reflects the network, it's not like Bill O'Reilly said it, he actually defends Obama against some of the conservatives that come on his show, while Keith Olbermann says some outlandish things that would get Bill O'Reilly in a lot of hot water if he did similar segments.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 09:53:29 PM by StoneTempleBrett »


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Lazy Divey

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Re: Weiland Backs Obama
« Reply #61 on: October 25, 2008, 10:15:16 PM »
Don't call me a hypocrite.  Did I insult you?  No, I stated my opinion which I have a right to...if you don't like it..then deal with it and move on.  Do you honestly think you are going to change my opinion?  Most news companies are biased to an extent...but Fox news is so one sided it's ridiculous and it's common knowledge ...now If you don't agree with me fine..but don't be a child and start the pointless name calling.  It is beneath me.

Slim Jim

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Re: Weiland Backs Obama
« Reply #62 on: October 25, 2008, 10:19:02 PM »
O'reilly is a riot. I can see why Colbert took O'reilly's act and turned into a hit comedy news show. I'll give papa bear credit that he allows people with opposing view points on his show, but then it usually degrades into a pathetic and amusing display where O'reilly shouts over the opposition, cuts them off when they start making a point and it ends with O'reilly throwing a temper trantrum like an eight year old stuck in a sixty year old's body. That's the only reason somebody like me watches that show. For the comedy of it. It's entertainment and nothing more. All of those talking head shows (on any of those major networks) are nothing more than entertainment. Check out these big talkers: fear-monger "conservative" Glenn Beck, obama-BJ-giving Olbermann, his buddy Rachel Maddow, Neocon O'reilly, and ultra republican Sean Hannity. Great entertainment, sprinkled with select facts and a lot of "spin".
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lovemachine97

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Re: Weiland Backs Obama
« Reply #63 on: October 26, 2008, 12:31:24 AM »
Quote from: "Lazy Divey"
Don't call me a hypocrite.  Did I insult you?  No, I stated my opinion which I have a right to...if you don't like it..then deal with it and move on.  Do you honestly think you are going to change my opinion?  Most news companies are biased to an extent...but Fox news is so one sided it's ridiculous and it's common knowledge ...now If you don't agree with me fine..but don't be a child and start the pointless name calling.  It is beneath me.

I'll try and respond to your initial post without trying to get in a pissing contest with you :-)

Fox news being "biased" to some degree is likely an accurate statement.  The same could be said for MSNBC, CNN, as well as every newspaper in the country.  Bias always creeps in, even if it is just in word choice.  However, I would argue that the "common knowledge" you mention is because the other stations play to a highly liberal base, and they do take opportunities to slam Fox, which, btw, kills them in the ratings.  Further, most celebrities are liberals who also have a microphone, and they use it to slam Fox News because Fox tells a part of the story the other networks don't.  Other than Dennis Miller, Jon Voight, and Kelsey Grammer, there aren't many conservative actors, so most of the celebs that do speak out, and are some of the few with microphones and an audience, speak out from the left.

Let's look at newspapers.  Of all the endorsements, 78% of them have gone to Obama, 22% to McCain.  Yet, only 44% of all registered voters are registered Democrat, and Obama is only up in the polls by 10 or less points.  Here you have an entire medium that is slanted towards the left, and yet it's not at least possible that Fox News is one of the few in television trying to address both sides while the other stations are left-leaning?

The extent of the bias is hard to prove, and I have taken a position that is different than 75% of the media, and therefore different than the public that listens to that media.  But I watch and read all of these stations and papers closely, and this is the conclusion I have come to.  I implore with you that if you are just passing along what you believe to be common knowledge, please, please watch CNN, MSNBC, and Fox equally for a week or so.  Ask yourself if Fox is really biased, or if it's just because the side of the "right", a side you don't agree with, is actually getting fair time, and a fair chance.  Keep in mind Keith Olbermann and Sean Hannity are the extremes, and judging Fox or MSNBC by just their shows is unfair.

I tried to find a Democratic contributer to Fox that might help me with my point, and I found something from Alan Colmes.  Here he is talking about the Pew study I mentioned earlier:

Liberals and the Democratic establishment often regard FOX News as biased and tend to diminish the strength of its appeal to all but die-hard conservatives. In the process, I get plenty of grief from the left for taking a FOX paycheck.   A new study out by Pew Research shows some of this conventional wisdom not to be true. In fact, FOX News has the most “Fair and Balanced” audience of the three cable news nets.

The political breakdown:

    CNN: 51% Democrats, 18% Republicans, 23% independents

    MSNBC: 45% Democrats, 18% Republicans, 27% independents

    Fox News: 33% Democrats, 39% Republicans, 22% independents

This represents a fair and balanced audience of viewers who are engaged, who vote, and who Democrats need if they’re going to win elections.  To those who argue that Democrats should avoid FOX News, look at who you’re also avoiding: a combination of Democrats and independents equalling 45% of the most-watched cable news channel.


link: http://www.alan.com/2008/08/17/fox-vs-msnbc-vs-cnn/

The Pew study: http://people-press.org/reports/pdf/444.pdf
« Last Edit: October 26, 2008, 12:48:47 AM by lovemachine97 »

Long Way Home

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Re: Weiland Backs Obama
« Reply #64 on: October 26, 2008, 03:25:16 AM »
Quote from: "Lazy Divey"
How can anyone in their right mind actually believe Fox News is a credible news source?

CNN, New York Times, MSNBC, ABC, etc are more in the tank for Obama than Fox News is for McCain. On a side note, this is the last gasp of the old, radical 60-70s liberals (see: Peebs) to get their hands on the government. It will probably work out, but my success does not depend on who is president. And neither does yours.

On a side note, I do not like Barr. If you critically read, it noted that I said I would vote Libertarian before the election started.

Good conversation and all good points of view. It is interesting to see what other people here think.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2008, 03:27:51 AM by Long Way Home »

StoneTempleBrett

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Re: Weiland Backs Obama
« Reply #65 on: October 26, 2008, 04:23:12 AM »
Quote from: "Lazy Divey"
but Fox news is so one sided it's ridiculous and it's common knowledge
It's common knowledge that it's not.  Myself and lovemachine gave many examples as to why it's not.  You're simply not backing it up and you're giving me the usual Olbermann like rhetoric.


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NakedFountain

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Re: Weiland Backs Obama
« Reply #66 on: October 26, 2008, 01:44:13 PM »
Quote from: "STPGurl"
LOL - you don't even live in the US, NF.  :P

lol, i know but who's elected president in the US will effect the people who live in Europe as well, so that's why I care.
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lovemachine97

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Re: Weiland Backs Obama
« Reply #67 on: October 26, 2008, 08:06:40 PM »
Quote from: "NakedFountain"
lol, i know but who's elected president in the US will effect the people who live in Europe as well, so that's why I care.


Very true in some ways.  Globalization is in full force.  Look at what the collapse of the banks and housing industry did to the rest of the world.  At least our government is big enough to do these bail outs (even though I am against the bailouts from Congress recently, but that is just my opinion).  Some countries have entities who would have bigger GDPs than the countries they're in, and if a bail out were needed, the country could not do it.


Also, I wanna clarify that I don't mean to belittle anyone, or push my views on them.  I am open about who I am supporting, but I have also been open about researching and deciding yourself.  Only when someone attacked my choice for President did I do a line by line comeback, and in retrospect, maybe I should have ignored it. 

It's no secret I am conservative, that I have leanings toward libertarianism and that is going to bias how I reply.  However, I am a Decline to State voter with no party affiliation.  I hate political parties.  I study the issues, listen to smart people on both sides, and make my decision. On here, I do try really hard to present facts, sound theories, and real life examples of how things may affect us, but I don't want to impose my views on anyone.  When I graduate college in June I am going into teaching, and I just want people to be aware and think for themselves.  But, in order to do that, you have to know each side of an issue.

Is Bob Barr the perfect choice for President for me?  No.  But in my gut, I couldn't live with myself if I didn't vote for someone who most closely represents my ideals, and whose platform, again IMO, is actually Change, and not vote for "the lesser of two evils" just because they have a chance at winning.  IMO, neither McCain, nor Obama, are bringing anything new to the table.  Both are parts of political parties that are the establishment, and both parties have changed for the worse (Kennedy's "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country" is so far from the Democratic platform layed out by Obama that the party is unrecognizable, just as the Religious right has made the Republicans unrecognizable).

Those who have followed in Martin Luther King, Jr.'s footsteps are equally unrecognizable from his platform.  Black Revs. in the LA Times telling me that I only have two choices, vote what's best for the country, or vote my racial fears?  How is that judging a man by his character, and not by the color of his skin?

Unbelievable.

I am conscientious of an exchange of ideas in the public sphere, and not verbal attacks against one another.  I do have my views, and I think it's responsible in this exchange to listen, understand, and take into account differing views.

In fact, this is Bush's critical fault.  If you're dumb, you surround yourself with smart people.  And if you're smart, you surround yourself with smart people who disagree with you.  Make no mistake, Bush isn't dumb.  He is actually smarter than all of us on this board.  The guy may have gotten into school based on family, but they DON'T have to keep you there.  He graduated from Yale and Harvard with better grades (albeit slightly) than the "smart" John Kerry.  But, make no mistake, as it stands now, I am no fan of Bush.  And unless what he started changes the middle east for the better 20 years down the line, he will have been seen as a failure.  He surrounded himself with "yes" men, and he had no tolerance for an opposing view, which is fundamentally anti-democratic.

If Obama surrounds himself with extreme leftists, we will be in the same boat as we have been with Bush.  Kennedy learned he needed to have people around with opposing points of view, and because of this, he came out of the Cuban missile crisis differently than he had the bay of pigs.

This is also why, IMO, the liberal media demonize someone like Bill O'Reilly.  It's BECAUSE he runs as fair of a show as one can.  And viewers have responded to it.  His ratings are unbelievable.  Yes, he is a political conservative, but he is NOT Republican.  He runs a fair show, has people on all the time that disagree with him, and he personaly critiques Obama and McCain evenly.  They're scared because he does what smart people should do: understand or explore opposing viewpoints.  After each issue, at the end, he tells the viewer to decide for themselves.  Exactly.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2008, 08:41:06 PM by lovemachine97 »

everylilwhore

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Re: Weiland Backs Obama
« Reply #68 on: October 26, 2008, 08:16:32 PM »
Ah, how there once was a day that I would waste my time trying to get involved in this and trying to change someone's mind.

You guys have presented your facts. Move on.

=)

ilovescott

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Re: Weiland Backs Obama
« Reply #69 on: October 26, 2008, 08:32:56 PM »
we have a old slut as a land leader :(  (germany)
In münchen steht ein hofbräuhaus  onz zwo gsuffa..

lovemachine97

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Re: Weiland Backs Obama
« Reply #70 on: October 26, 2008, 08:54:51 PM »
Quote from: "everylilwhore"
Ah, how there once was a day that I would waste my time trying to get involved in this and trying to change someone's mind.

You guys have presented your facts. Move on.

=)



I'll talk to any reasonable person about this stuff at any time.  Aside from immediate issues with yourself and your family, there couldn't be more important issue to discuss.  We're fighting two wars, our leaders are using socialist tactics to try and salvage an atrocious economy (and there are people who agree and disagree about the necessity, and it is our money, so it's reasonable to debate), banks are failing, small business are failing, people are losing their houses, and Al-Qaida is always planning another attack.  Inflation is sky-rocketing, and wer'e more and more indebted to China every day.  We must keep perspective, though, that we have the power to change this.  More than 10 times as many banks went under after the late-80's crash, and we're still here.

Really, this is all much more relevant to one's everday life than one thinks.  Yes, we come here for a release to discuss Stone Temple Pilots, and pop-culture is important too.  However, discussing and learning from others is essential, and the internet is an outstanding tool of communication and quickly show facts, ideas, or theories, and often be able to link someone directly to the fact, idea, or theory.

Since much of the youth is liberal, and if polls are to be believed, most Americans are complicit with a liberal agenda across the Legislature and the Executive branches, then it is more important now than ever to  not repeat the same mistakes of the Bush administration, and listen to what the other side has to say.

If I can help that in any way, or any form, I will do so out of a feeling of responsibility.

MoreCowbell

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Re: Weiland Backs Obama
« Reply #71 on: October 26, 2008, 09:22:36 PM »
Quote from: "StoneTempleBrett"
It's common knowledge that it's not.  Myself and lovemachine gave many examples as to why it's not.  You're simply not backing it up and you're giving me the usual Olbermann like rhetoric.

What do you know about Rupert Murdoch?

everylilwhore

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Re: Weiland Backs Obama
« Reply #72 on: October 26, 2008, 10:35:00 PM »
Quote from: "lovemachine97"
I'll talk to any reasonable person about this stuff at any time.  Aside from immediate issues with yourself and your family, there couldn't be more important issue to discuss.  We're fighting two wars, our leaders are using socialist tactics to try and salvage an atrocious economy (and there are people who agree and disagree about the necessity, and it is our money, so it's reasonable to debate), banks are failing, small business are failing, people are losing their houses, and Al-Qaida is always planning another attack.  Inflation is sky-rocketing, and wer'e more and more indebted to China every day.  We must keep perspective, though, that we have the power to change this.  More than 10 times as many banks went under after the late-80's crash, and we're still here.

Really, this is all much more relevant to one's everday life than one thinks.  Yes, we come here for a release to discuss Stone Temple Pilots, and pop-culture is important too.  However, discussing and learning from others is essential, and the internet is an outstanding tool of communication and quickly show facts, ideas, or theories, and often be able to link someone directly to the fact, idea, or theory.

Since much of the youth is liberal, and if polls are to be believed, most Americans are complicit with a liberal agenda across the Legislature and the Executive branches, then it is more important now than ever to  not repeat the same mistakes of the Bush administration, and listen to what the other side has to say.

If I can help that in any way, or any form, I will do so out of a feeling of responsibility.

But you were missing my point. I tried what you are doing right now, along with a few others. To educate people back in 2000 and 2004. There are some people who will simply choose not to listen to anything you have to say.

You have stated your opinion, backed it up with facts and that is all you can really do.

In the end, we are heading towards the United States having its first black President; regardless of your stance on the issues, it certainly is a huge leap for us as a country....but as someone else said, I truly fear that something bad will happen while he is in office; if not to him, to this country.

I am not voting for Obama, but he is a very intelligent man who could certainly bring about some changes; at the same time I do not feel he is ready to be the Commander of this country.

I have a strong gut feeling that we are in for some very bad times coming ahead in terms of national security. Bush needs to keep launching as many attacks against foreign fighters in Pakistan that he possibly can; get the intelligence from the soldiers on the ground and have them light up targets and have a few hellfire missiles blow shit up.

I have a cousin who is in Iraq. He served two tours in Afghanistan and is now in Iraq serving his third tour. He re-enlisted, because he said 'we have a job to finish'

I just got laid off last week, so I know what it is like to be hit by the state of the economy. Jobs are scarce and many companies are in hiring freezes until their new budgets kick in, in 2009.

I am not going to start debating with everyone on here again. I wasted too much time doing it during the past few elections. I learned that there is an enormous amount of misinformed voters who do not take the time to educate themselves. They vote based on popularity of a candidate, or because they live in a family who has voted one way their whole lives. It is truly a shame.

The Republicans have shot themselves in the foot; but I look at it this way. Obama becomes President and the Democrats virtually take over Washington. If anything goes wrong, we all know that the finger pointing will suddenly start. I am personally sick of politics.

NakedFountain

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Re: Weiland Backs Obama
« Reply #73 on: October 26, 2008, 11:53:35 PM »
Quote from: "ilovescott"
we have a old slut as a land leader :(  (germany)

well hi, neighbour (denmark)
our leader was Bush's lap dog right after blair....can't wait til we get a new one.
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I can drown your sorrow"

StoneTempleBrett

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Re: Weiland Backs Obama
« Reply #74 on: October 27, 2008, 02:13:58 AM »
I'm shocked there are other Republicans here, I thought this thread would be me vs. everybody lol.  Political talk always gets heated.


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