THE BEST PRODUCTION OF BRENDAN O'BRIEN WITH STP?

[Virgojams]

I would like to say what a horrible thread this is in general. Yes a terrible thread! Talk about nitpicking! Each STP album had it's own sound and feel to it at the time it was released. Albums are released in their own style. Some sound mass produced, some sound raw and edgy while some might sound like all the pieces don't fit together. Yes Tiny Music sounds much more rough around the edges compared to a more produced sounding Core album. That's what makes each and every album unique and timeless. Core may be more straight forward while Tiny Music is more poppy. It was definitely a more experimental record than Core was. And So I Know is such a beautiful and timeless piece. Yes it always had that out of place track on the record but I think that's what we all loved about it. It had something for everyone and they might have made some tracks that maybe not everyone would have liked. But they were pushing the envelope and didn't care what the critics thought even though it might have pissed off some fans who only liked that Core sound. I just don't see the whole point of nitpicking each STP album. They were what they were. They each had their own individuality and that's what makes them priceless to this very day!

[nat]

Uhhh, you completely missed the point of the thread. Obviously it went right over your head.

This isn't about the songs or STP's musical direction on each album, this is about the production quality of the music in a literal sense.

[down]

I constantly hear the comment that No.4 was underproduced and sounds muffled/submerged.
I love everything about that album [except mc5]. I must've listened to heaven and hotrods over 40times on repeat in a row, just to figure out where the keyboard sample was. It has so many musical layers that most people probably overlook, but had certain things not been there, would completely change the song [I can't imagine Church on Tuesday without the presence of Robert's bass near the end.  For me, out of all of the albums, it definitely has the rawest feeling to it, so i'll have to say its my favorite.

[nat]

^^^

Now THAT'S what I'm talking about.

I'll have to give No 4 another listen sometime soon and watch for those things, that and SLDD don't get very much time in my CD player. I realized this when I was typing my first message in this thread and realized I couldn't really remember what production on SLDD sounded like.

[down]

i always felt that if the band ever released those dual disc re-issues with bonus features, that they should include clips from the studio. I'd kill to see complete vocal takes from Core, and get a little more light on what BOB does.
For that matter, I know Brendan O'Brien is said to be the fifth member of the band, but what exactly is the role of the producer?

[gravedancer]

I don't really like the way No. 4 sounds. I can't really describe it, it just sounds way too dark and twisted for me, even though I like the songs. I've always liked the way SLDD sounds. It puts me in a good mood!

[lovemachine97]

I think Brendan O'Brien is one of the great producers, who along with Rick Rubin, is awesome at not having a particular production style, and all the records they do, even within the same band, sound different.

I think SLDD sounds the best to me.  I appreciate the attitude of wanting an album to sound raw, but I think there is a delicate balance between that, and making a piece of art, like an album.  First, if you watch the MTV Rockumentary, you can hear Eric Kretz tell us that Tiny Music is actually a much more raw album than Purple.

When making art in the form of an album, I think it is okay to create something than may not be able to be 100% recreated live.  That is one of the things I have liked about STP, and one reason you know the songs are great--they make them sound amazing on record, and then live, they are turned into these raw songs that expose either the attitude, the groove, and/or the melody.

As far as No. 4 goes--more attention to production could've made it SO much better.  The problem with the album is not everything recorded is crystal clear.  Put on a set of headphones and listen to how well you can hear EVERYTHING.  The time was taken to put each instrument and/or part in its best frequency range, without trampling over another's, so you can HEAR everything.  Things tend to get lost on No. 4 in a muddy, murky production.  I think if it sounded like SLDD, No. 4 would've come to life.

[down]

but that's the thing that adds to No.4: it is dark and twisted, and raw. i could've sworn that there's an interview where Dean claims Scott did the vocals for Church on tuesday in one take, and then went to shoot up. Dean was angry that it wasn't the best take. The Rs article from 99 comes close to it, but i'll see if I can locate anything further on that. http://www.rollingstone.com/artists/stonetemplepilots/articles/story/5927788/the_needle__the_damage_done
I couldn't imagine SLDD production on any of No.4. I personally don't think it would have felt right. Thiose songs are truly encapsulating as they are.

[nat]

While I definitely favor the production on Purple, I completely agree that none of the other albums would sound right with any other production qualities. Except Core.... that one could use a major overhaul.

[loungefly611]

a far cry from the over-produced, over-polished Core. Core has some great music, but the production is awful.

Over-produced? Really? I just don't see it. When I think of over produced, I think of something very animated, glossy, lots of bells and whistles, etc. Core didn't have that. It was just straight up hard rock. Now I agree with you about SLDD. I feel that was overproduced in parts.

I liked your description of Purple. It does feel earthy.

[lovemachine97]

Over-produced? Really? I just don't see it. When I think of over produced, I think of something very animated, glossy, lots of bells and whistles, etc. Core didn't have that. It was just straight up hard rock. Now I agree with you about SLDD. I feel that was overproduced in parts.

I liked your description of Purple. It does feel earthy.

Well Core still had that production style held over from the 80's.  There are a TON of guitar overdubs, and a TON of reverb.  It creates a wall of sound, but also sounds like you're playing in a cave.  Pearl Jam HATED this about Ten, and contemplated rereleasing it a few years go.  Instead, they "remixed" a couple songs from Ten and put them on their greatest hits album, rearviewmirror.

BTW, in my last post, I meant to say that No.4 sounds inferior to me to SLDD, and I went on to describe how you can hear everything very easily on SLDD, and on No. 4, things get muddied up a bit.

[loungefly611]

Well Core still had that production style held over from the 80's.  There are a TON of guitar overdubs, and a TON of reverb.  It creates a wall of sound, but also sounds like you're playing in a cave.  Pearl Jam HATED this about Ten, and contemplated rereleasing it a few years go.  Instead, they "remixed" a couple songs from Ten and put them on their greatest hits album, rearviewmirror.

BTW, in my last post, I meant to say that No.4 sounds inferior to me to SLDD, and I went on to describe how you can hear everything very easily on SLDD, and on No. 4, things get muddied up a bit.

Makes sense now. You are referring to the remix of Once and Black as far as PJ goes. I was wondering why they did that. Now come to think of  it, the production of Vs. is much different from Ten. Like how the production on Purple is much different from Core. It does seem much more updated when you compare the two.

I was never a big fan of the production of No.4. It does sound very muffled.

[nat]

Yes, lovemachine97 understands perfectly what I was talking about. Core is way overproduced that same way most late 80's/early 90's records are. The overproduction on SLDD is different, although it does have a "cleaner" sound than 4, if that makes any sense.

[lovemachine97]

To me that shows the brilliance of O'Brien.  The guy is a chameleon, and only No. 4 has been sub-par.  Look up all the albums he has either mixed, recorded, or produced.  It is QUITE a list.  Rick Parashar produced Ten (also Temple of the Dog--hear the similarities in the two records?  Kevin Shirley is another producer where albums have a "feel"), but O'Brien did the next several, and his had more life than PJ albums he didn't do.

Bands also have more input in what they want their albums to sound like once their first one is a hit, hence the differences between albums one and two--this combines with the "time" or "era" to have a significant change in tone.

As a guitarist, Dean tastefully uses reverb, whereas Core had reverb on EVERYTHING.  Some fellow musicians even call reverb "the devil's tool", but it is essential for certain sounds.  Scott, however, prefers delay on his vocals (mostly) post-Core.

The interesting thing, though, is that live, STP's sound mostly resembles Core--even the non-Core songs.  The venue provides natural reverb, and Dean's sound is layered and Chorus-heavy.  So even though they have shyed away from that sound, it's what mostly resembles them live.

As a side note, I think Vs. is PJ's best sounding album. 

[nat]

As a side note, I think Vs. is PJ's best sounding album. 

Absolutely. Not only is it their best sounding album production-wise, but their greatest musically, IMO. It's the only PJ record I listen to anymore. It's consistently excellent from start to finish unlike anything they did before or since.