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Author Topic: Meadow - Single  (Read 31731 times)

Aaron

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Re: Meadow - Single
« Reply #210 on: January 16, 2018, 10:29:58 PM »
I dont view things as black and white as this.  I view it as its not my decision to make.  You hold STP in less regard because they choose to make the music they want to make without one original member. 

Yes I am aware that Zeppelin did not continue on with making new music, but that was their CHOICE.  STP should be allowed to make the choice they want to make too.

I dont see the integrity argument you're trying to make.  As a musician I would think you would respect the individual artists' choice. 

The Legacy

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Re: Meadow - Single
« Reply #211 on: January 16, 2018, 11:00:33 PM »
I dont view things as black and white as this.  I view it as its not my decision to make.  You hold STP in less regard because they choose to make the music they want to make without one original member. 

Yes I am aware that Zeppelin did not continue on with making new music, but that was their CHOICE.  STP should be allowed to make the choice they want to make too.

I dont see the integrity argument you're trying to make.  As a musician I would think you would respect the individual artists' choice.
In this case I see the artist as a sum of four people.

stontemplpilot

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Re: Meadow - Single
« Reply #212 on: January 16, 2018, 11:51:25 PM »
I have no dog in the fight and wish the band the best, but for the sake of throwing another scenario in the mix, how well would it be received if Ringo and Paul McCartney were to get 2 random guys to go on tour with and call themselves "The Beatles"?

NickLorenza

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Re: Meadow - Single
« Reply #213 on: January 17, 2018, 01:49:35 AM »

You seem to think success in the music business is simply down to your ability, just be good, and you'll make it. It's like Magic! You don't have the faintest clue about the music industry.


This quote is SO spot on. Yes, some who make it are "good"/talented. However, making it in the music industry is much closer to winning the lottery than winning a talent competition. It's all about luck of the draw. Making the right connections, being in the right place at the right time. Lots of luck. If it were purely based on talent then guys who play super complex progressive music would be the biggest rock stars of them all. There is a reason most people would know who Meg White is as the drummer of The White Stripes as opposed to say Mike Portnoy of Dream Theater.  Portnoy is clearly the better, more talented drummer who could drum circles around Meg White. However Meg White is clearly more well known because her band "made it" at that level of commercial success, which had nothing to do with her level of greatness.


Secondly, I know I won't change your mind in your argument, but allow me to ask.... For those of you who are so against the new stp lineup calling itself stp; and for those who are super worried about legacy, I ask this.  What is YOUR take on AC/DC?  They obviously carried forward without Bon Scott, who was one hell of a frontman who gave some big shoes to fill. They were perfectly successful with Brian Johnson. In your opinion, did they piss on their legacy by continuing with Brian Johnson?

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PigsinZen

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Re: Meadow - Single
« Reply #214 on: January 17, 2018, 01:59:01 AM »

You seem to think success in the music business is simply down to your ability, just be good, and you'll make it. It's like Magic! You don't have the faintest clue about the music industry.


This quote is SO spot on. Yes, some who make it are "good"/talented. However, making it in the music industry is much closer to winning the lottery than winning a talent competition. It's all about luck of the draw. Making the right connections, being in the right place at the right time. Lots of luck. If it were purely based on talent then guys who play super complex progressive music would be the biggest rock stars of them all. There is a reason most people would know who Meg White is as the drummer of The White Stripes as opposed to say Mike Portnoy of Dream Theater.  Portnoy is clearly the better, more talented drummer who could drum circles around Meg White. However Meg White is clearly more well known because her band "made it" at that level of commercial success, which had nothing to do with her level of greatness.


Secondly, I know I won't change your mind in your argument, but allow me to ask.... For those of you who are so against the new stp lineup calling itself stp; and for those who are super worried about legacy, I ask this.  What is YOUR take on AC/DC?  They obviously carried forward without Bon Scott, who was one hell of a frontman who gave some big shoes to fill. They were perfectly successful with Brian Johnson. In your opinion, did they piss on their legacy by continuing with Brian Johnson?




Agree with everything except your assessment of AC/DC. They were only 6-7 years into their music career as a band. They proved any naysayers wrong by releasing one of the most popular albums of all time that has classic track after classic track. They are ruining their legacy by replacing Brian Johnson with Axl Rose. It is too late in their career to continue on with anyone but Brian Johnson especially after the loss of Malcolm.

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Re: Meadow - Single
« Reply #215 on: January 17, 2018, 02:02:21 AM »

You seem to think success in the music business is simply down to your ability, just be good, and you'll make it. It's like Magic! You don't have the faintest clue about the music industry.


This quote is SO spot on. Yes, some who make it are "good"/talented. However, making it in the music industry is much closer to winning the lottery than winning a talent competition. It's all about luck of the draw. Making the right connections, being in the right place at the right time. Lots of luck. If it were purely based on talent then guys who play super complex progressive music would be the biggest rock stars of them all. There is a reason most people would know who Meg White is as the drummer of The White Stripes as opposed to say Mike Portnoy of Dream Theater.  Portnoy is clearly the better, more talented drummer who could drum circles around Meg White. However Meg White is clearly more well known because her band "made it" at that level of commercial success, which had nothing to do with her level of greatness.


Secondly, I know I won't change your mind in your argument, but allow me to ask.... For those of you who are so against the new stp lineup calling itself stp; and for those who are super worried about legacy, I ask this.  What is YOUR take on AC/DC?  They obviously carried forward without Bon Scott, who was one hell of a frontman who gave some big shoes to fill. They were perfectly successful with Brian Johnson. In your opinion, did they piss on their legacy by continuing with Brian Johnson?


But dude they are former members of stp and have been in the industry for 26 years, they have a leg up on everybody no matter what the band name

EyesOfDisarray

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Re: Meadow - Single
« Reply #216 on: January 17, 2018, 02:32:30 AM »
It doesn’t have to be seen that way. Zeppelin was treated that way by its members

Zeppelin played a massive concert years ago with Jason Bonham. They sold tickets for hundreds of dollars and then produced a DVD of it and sold tons of copies. They even showed it in some movie theaters.

Did that ruin their legacy?

Or is that okay because Jason is family? Should Dean, Robert, and Eric have waited for Noah Weiland to come of age?

What the fuck, this is stupid.

Pingfah

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Re: Meadow - Single
« Reply #217 on: January 17, 2018, 09:47:25 AM »

I’ve literally been in the music industry since I was a teenager. If they had an amazing album with a couple great singles they would be able to find success promoting themselves as a new supergroup featuring former members of stp, especially when they had Chester, that was a perfect equivalent to audioslave in terms of it being three instrumentalists of one band and adding the singer of another. With that HUGE foot in the door you can make an impact with a great record, this the success of velvet revolver and audioslave. Point is, if they have something meaningful to contribute then marketing themselves as a new supergroup featuring stp members would be enough to give them success. But their priority is like many peoples here, keeping stp running as a business. To me, that seems contrary to both the essence of both rock and roll and stp but that’s my opinion

I want new music from the Deleos. STP is the best chance they have of doing that and keeping being able to do it. So I am happy for them to do that, because I am a fan of, you know, music.

You keep saying they have a great chance of making it as a new band, not once have you addessed the fact that Talk Show failed when they were at their most powerful and successful point in the music industry. Why? Because it makes a nonsense of everything you are saying, that is why. I'm baffled at why somebody who claims to be in "the music industry" would continue to make such obviously false claims. Do you work in a record shop, perhaps?

Your argument is the one treating it as a business. You are concerned only with the name, and not with getting new music. You say other people don't have faith in their abilities, implying that you do, but in the next breath you say that anything they create as STP would dilute their legacy, totally contradicting yourself.

If you gave a shit about the music, you'd just want more music.

The Legacy

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Re: Meadow - Single
« Reply #218 on: January 17, 2018, 12:57:32 PM »

I’ve literally been in the music industry since I was a teenager. If they had an amazing album with a couple great singles they would be able to find success promoting themselves as a new supergroup featuring former members of stp, especially when they had Chester, that was a perfect equivalent to audioslave in terms of it being three instrumentalists of one band and adding the singer of another. With that HUGE foot in the door you can make an impact with a great record, this the success of velvet revolver and audioslave. Point is, if they have something meaningful to contribute then marketing themselves as a new supergroup featuring stp members would be enough to give them success. But their priority is like many peoples here, keeping stp running as a business. To me, that seems contrary to both the essence of both rock and roll and stp but that’s my opinion

I want new music from the Deleos. STP is the best chance they have of doing that and keeping being able to do it. So I am happy for them to do that, because I am a fan of, you know, music.

You keep saying they have a great chance of making it as a new band, not once have you addessed the fact that Talk Show failed when they were at their most powerful and successful point in the music industry. Why? Because it makes a nonsense of everything you are saying, that is why. I'm baffled at why somebody who claims to be in "the music industry" would continue to make such obviously false claims. Do you work in a record shop, perhaps?

Your argument is the one treating it as a business. You are concerned only with the name, and not with getting new music. You say other people don't have faith in their abilities, implying that you do, but in the next breath you say that anything they create as STP would dilute their legacy, totally contradicting yourself.

If you gave a shit about the music, you'd just want more music.
I don’t just want new music, I don’t think people should release music just for the sake of it. Even the deleos said once back in 2010 that they wouldn’t release something if they didn’t feel they were contributing something new. I enjoy talk show but yeah it’s clearly not on the level of contraband or audioslave. Talk show would have been the weakest stp record. So I’m not surprised it didn’t do well. But if they had a great record with great singles they have a better opportunity than most. I do not have faith in them, have you listened to high rise? And no I’m not a record shop worker, I have been involved with things you would probably pay to witness

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Re: Meadow - Single
« Reply #219 on: January 17, 2018, 01:00:30 PM »
It doesn’t have to be seen that way. Zeppelin was treated that way by its members

Zeppelin played a massive concert years ago with Jason Bonham. They sold tickets for hundreds of dollars and then produced a DVD of it and sold tons of copies. They even showed it in some movie theaters.

Did that ruin their legacy?

Or is that okay because Jason is family? Should Dean, Robert, and Eric have waited for Noah Weiland to come of age?

What the fuck, this is stupid.
A reunion one off show with the drummers son is the same as attempting to release records, touring, and completely carrying on? I think not. It was a celebration after 37 years, not an attempt to keep zeppelin going. That’s completely apples and oranges and you know it.

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Re: Meadow - Single
« Reply #220 on: January 17, 2018, 01:02:49 PM »
It doesn’t have to be seen that way. Zeppelin was treated that way by its members

Zeppelin played a massive concert years ago with Jason Bonham. They sold tickets for hundreds of dollars and then produced a DVD of it and sold tons of copies. They even showed it in some movie theaters.

Did that ruin their legacy?

Or is that okay because Jason is family? Should Dean, Robert, and Eric have waited for Noah Weiland to come of age?

What the fuck, this is stupid.
This is literally the dumbest thing you could have come up with. Only would have been relevant if I was complaining about them doing one show or maybe one tour, not them attempting to just carrying on with a reality show contestant and making new music.

CoconutBackwards

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Re: Meadow - Single
« Reply #221 on: January 17, 2018, 03:43:09 PM »

You seem to think success in the music business is simply down to your ability, just be good, and you'll make it. It's like Magic! You don't have the faintest clue about the music industry.


This quote is SO spot on. Yes, some who make it are "good"/talented. However, making it in the music industry is much closer to winning the lottery than winning a talent competition. It's all about luck of the draw. Making the right connections, being in the right place at the right time. Lots of luck. If it were purely based on talent then guys who play super complex progressive music would be the biggest rock stars of them all. There is a reason most people would know who Meg White is as the drummer of The White Stripes as opposed to say Mike Portnoy of Dream Theater.  Portnoy is clearly the better, more talented drummer who could drum circles around Meg White. However Meg White is clearly more well known because her band "made it" at that level of commercial success, which had nothing to do with her level of greatness.


Secondly, I know I won't change your mind in your argument, but allow me to ask.... For those of you who are so against the new stp lineup calling itself stp; and for those who are super worried about legacy, I ask this.  What is YOUR take on AC/DC?  They obviously carried forward without Bon Scott, who was one hell of a frontman who gave some big shoes to fill. They were perfectly successful with Brian Johnson. In your opinion, did they piss on their legacy by continuing with Brian Johnson?



Agree with everything except your assessment of AC/DC. They were only 6-7 years into their music career as a band. They proved any naysayers wrong by releasing one of the most popular albums of all time that has classic track after classic track. They are ruining their legacy by replacing Brian Johnson with Axl Rose. It is too late in their career to continue on with anyone but Brian Johnson especially after the loss of Malcolm.


So, what is the exact amount of years you're allowed to be a band before your LEGACY is tarnished?
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CoconutBackwards

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Re: Meadow - Single
« Reply #222 on: January 17, 2018, 03:55:08 PM »
It doesn’t have to be seen that way. Zeppelin was treated that way by its members

Zeppelin played a massive concert years ago with Jason Bonham. They sold tickets for hundreds of dollars and then produced a DVD of it and sold tons of copies. They even showed it in some movie theaters.

Did that ruin their legacy?

Or is that okay because Jason is family? Should Dean, Robert, and Eric have waited for Noah Weiland to come of age?

What the fuck, this is stupid.
A reunion one off show with the drummers son is the same as attempting to release records, touring, and completely carrying on? I think not. It was a celebration after 37 years, not an attempt to keep zeppelin going. That’s completely apples and oranges and you know it.


So, a one off show is alright?  Two shows would have ruined their legacy though?


I didn't know there were specific rules to this.  Please send over the rule book for legacies after original singers leave.
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Vaporized - "I can confirm that it's neither Gutt or Borja."

The Legacy

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Re: Meadow - Single
« Reply #223 on: January 17, 2018, 04:09:23 PM »
It doesn’t have to be seen that way. Zeppelin was treated that way by its members

Zeppelin played a massive concert years ago with Jason Bonham. They sold tickets for hundreds of dollars and then produced a DVD of it and sold tons of copies. They even showed it in some movie theaters.

Did that ruin their legacy?

Or is that okay because Jason is family? Should Dean, Robert, and Eric have waited for Noah Weiland to come of age?

What the fuck, this is stupid.
A reunion one off show with the drummers son is the same as attempting to release records, touring, and completely carrying on? I think not. It was a celebration after 37 years, not an attempt to keep zeppelin going. That’s completely apples and oranges and you know it.


So, a one off show is alright?  Two shows would have ruined their legacy though?


I didn't know there were specific rules to this.  Please send over the rule book for legacies after original singers leave.
Releasing new music. I’m here on the meadow thread talking about it so I thought that was clear. Touring and new music. Can you really not see the difference between the two? Seems very obviously different

EyesOfDisarray

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Re: Meadow - Single
« Reply #224 on: January 17, 2018, 04:16:14 PM »
It doesn’t have to be seen that way. Zeppelin was treated that way by its members

Zeppelin played a massive concert years ago with Jason Bonham. They sold tickets for hundreds of dollars and then produced a DVD of it and sold tons of copies. They even showed it in some movie theaters.

Did that ruin their legacy?

Or is that okay because Jason is family? Should Dean, Robert, and Eric have waited for Noah Weiland to come of age?

What the fuck, this is stupid.
This is literally the dumbest thing you could have come up with. Only would have been relevant if I was complaining about them doing one show or maybe one tour, not them attempting to just carrying on with a reality show contestant and making new music.

Maybe my point was dumb, but your whole argument is dumb, so what did you expect?

Your argument is so imbecilic that I sincerely can't get serious enough about it to give a meaningful response. My Noah Weiland bit is all you get, because that's all your argument is worth. It's ridiculous.

It's like trying to have a meaningful debate with a flat-earther. Wait, tell me you're not a flat-earther...