STP has found new singer that "fits the bill"

[EyesOfDisarray]

This whole thing with Borja started after he made some cryptic posts on social media (including the photo with Rob). However, I don’t remember those posts looking like or leading to any “inappropriate self-promotion.” Those things were speculated about here and on YouTube, then picked up by Alt Nation, Loudwire, etc., and that’s eventually how it arrived back at the STP camp, with tons of added speculation.

Also, a similar thing happened with Gutt — that article came out saying he was the guy, which the band later shot down. That media outlet had to have gotten that information somewhere. Is it possible Gutt gave similar cryptic messages to friends or followers? I think Dean and Rob were aiming the “inappropriate self-promotion” comment at Gutt too; he was the “some guy who was on American Idol or something.” While Dean had to tell John McEnroe no about Borja, the Gutt situation was even more involved — the band’s camp had to release a statement to the media clarifying it.

Are John Borja and Jeff Gutt both guilty of shamelessly milking their STP candidacies for self-promotion?

Or is it possible the STP camp did not communicate properly with these guys about their status in the singer search, and they both genuinely thought they were still in the running? Is it possible Dean and Rob are doing damage control now for mismanagement of the singer search, the intentions of which many of us have been suspicious since the beginning?

[skunkyfunk]

Eyesofdisarray,  turning down other landmark gigs because you wanna free up your schedule to make sure you are ready, with no schedule conflicts or  contract issues, is NOT self-promotion. Not talking to press  when they are bugging you is NOT self-promotion.

If there is one entity that was well-promoted here in the singer search, it was no other than the band. All these speculative articles, no matter how vague, was used to band's PR advantage.

[TheWaterThatYouLeave]

This whole thing with Borja started after he made some cryptic posts on social media (including the photo with Rob). However, I don’t remember those posts looking like or leading to any “inappropriate self-promotion.” Those things were speculated about here and on YouTube, then picked up by Alt Nation, Loudwire, etc., and that’s eventually how it arrived back at the STP camp, with tons of added speculation.

Also, a similar thing happened with Gutt — that article came out saying he was the guy, which the band later shot down. That media outlet had to have gotten that information somewhere. Is it possible Gutt gave similar cryptic messages to friends or followers? I think Dean and Rob were aiming the “inappropriate self-promotion” comment at Gutt too; he was the “some guy who was on American Idol or something.” While Dean had to tell John McEnroe no about Borja, the Gutt situation was even more involved — the band’s camp had to release a statement to the media clarifying it.

Are John Borja and Jeff Gutt both guilty of shamelessly milking their STP candidacies for self-promotion?

Or is it possible the STP camp did not communicate properly with these guys about their status in the singer search, and they both genuinely thought they were still in the running? Is it possible Dean and Rob are doing damage control now for mismanagement of the singer search, the intentions of which many of us have been suspicious since the beginning?

Yeah. A lot of pregnant pauses for the people who initially had the carrot dangled in front of them and then were not informed of their progress. Not ideal.
Also i would have thought the inappropriate self promotion thing was in reference to how Scott Stapp handled joining Art of Anarchy. They were annoyed enough at the time to release a statement.

[CoconutBackwards]

Here's the above interview, starting exactly at the question about the rumors:


https://youtu.be/kPoCMif1h1w?t=8m45s


So there you go, right from the horses mouth. Not only have they not hired John, they aren't happy with the self-promotion he (or rather Dojie on his behalf) and others have been doing with this whole situation.


(Note: Dean's the one who tells the story of seeing McEnroe at a Royal Blood concert, not Rob.)

Truth shall prevail.

I know the truth about all of this.  I wish I could tell you.


Come 500,000 miles if you wanna know the truth.

[EyesOfDisarray]

@skunkyfunk That's the point I was making -- I don't think John Borja or Jeff Gutt are guilty of "inappropriate self-promotion."

@TheWaterThatYouLeave That would make a lot more sense if the "inappropriate self-promotion" comment was about Scott Stapp. I don't know though, because they said it while discussing Borja and Gutt. (Even though they didn't name them specifically, we all know they are the "guy who was on American Idol or something" and the "Filipino guy.") It's possible that was directed towards Stapp though. It would make me feel a bit better about the whole thing.

I don't know anything beyond what's discussed here, but my theory is that they were maybe very close to choosing a guy and changed course. I think it's also possible this happened more than once. Some candidates, like Einar Vilberg, have come out and explained how they auditioned but were told they didn't make the cut, while others, like Borja and Gutt, haven't.

This could mean a few things:

- Those candidates were told they didn't make the cut yet kept this hidden and continued to milk the situation for self-promotion. (Not likely, because I haven't seen anything from Borja or Gutt that indicates they have really done this.)

- Those candidates were not told they didn't make the cut, because STP chose to pursue other candidates but wanted to keep these guys around just in case they didn't find anyone they liked more.

- Those candidates were told they didn't make the cut but, unlike Vilberg, were told not to tell anyone they didn’t (per NDA), so as not to give any hints to the people following this as to who they had chosen. (Possible, but while we know the candidates signed NDAs, I don't think the STP camp has the foresight to try to control this sort of thing.)

I think the second option is most likely. STP wanted to keep trying other guy(s), but didn't want to say no to these guys, because they didn't want them to suddenly become unavailable had it not worked out with anyone new.

It's also possible they had a situation similar to Scott and VR, where after they had spent a good amount of time auditioning singers and not finding anyone they were totally in love with, someone like Pete Murray suddenly became available, who they felt was a great fit. Maybe someone like Murray had been on their radar all along but was not ready to take the plunge earlier on. So they did the singer search, but their heart was always with someone else.

Or maybe they originally had someone like Murray ready to go before the singer search, but they were not totally in love with him, so they did the singer search to see if they could find anyone better, and when they didn't, they fell back on their original pick.

[Blue]

Posting countless videos of yourself covering STP on Youtube qualifies as self-promotion.

Playing STP cover gigs qualifies as self-promotion

Refering to yourself as "STP Singer Submission Finalist John Borja" qualifies as self-promotion.

Speaking directly to a radio station and saying "there are clues or hints that seem to be favorable" to yourself getting the job qualifies as self-promotion.

Gutt, on the other hand, hasn't spoken once to the press, hasn't made a single comment tying himself to the band on social media, hasn't played a single STP tribute show, and hasn't posted a single video of himself covering STP on Youtube.

This is why I think the comments refer to Borja. There have been others who have used the opportunity to market themselves, such as Toryn and Blankenship and even Scott Stapp, but Borja's the only one we know was ever seriously considered for the job.

Whether you yourself believe his actions to be inappropriate or not, it can't be denied Borja has used the process to gain fame, and that may have upset the band.

[EyesOfDisarray]

Yes, those things Borja has done are self-promotion, but the question is whether or not they are "inappropriate" self-promotion. I definitely don't see those things in nearly the same vein as the bullshit Scott Stapp pulled. Stapp made people question if he was the next STP singer to draw attention to a project that had nothing to do with STP, except for the fact that Weiland had previously worked with them. Stapp even told the press he talked to Weiland's ghost in a bathroom.

Borja, on the other hand, is obviously still a working-class musician in the Philippines. Maybe he got a few dozen extra people to his gigs for a few months out of the buzz of it. I'm sure Mick Blankenship did too. For all of the applicants, a certain amount of self-promotion was to be expected, and they all did it. Has Borja crossed some kind of line that the other applicants didn't? When I look at the totality of his actions so far, I personally don't think so. I don't see a guy milking this opportunity for whatever fame/money he can make off of it at STP's expense. I see a guy who really wants to be STP's new singer and is doing everything he thinks he should to best position himself to become that.

[Blue]

Yes, those things Borja has done are self-promotion, but the question is whether or not they are "inappropriate" self-promotion. I definitely don't see those things in nearly the same vein as the bullshit Scott Stapp pulled. Stapp made people question if he was the next STP singer to draw attention to a project that had nothing to do with STP, except for the fact that Weiland had previously worked with them. Stapp even said he felt Weiland's ghost in a bathroom encouraging him.


Borja, on the other hand, is obviously still a working-class musician in the Philippines. Maybe he got a few dozen extra people to his gigs for a few months out of the buzz of it. I'm sure Mick Blankenship did too. For all of the applicants, a certain amount of self-promotion was to be expected, and they all did it. Has Borja crossed some kind of line that the other applicants didn't? When I look at the totality of his actions so far, I personally don't think so. I don't see a guy milking this opportunity for whatever fame/money he can make off of it at STP's expense. What I see is a guy who really wants to be STP's new singer and is doing everything he thinks he should to best position himself to become that.

Difference is Stapp is some douche the band never met. Borja on the other hand was someone they actually  invited in and trusted to audition with them quietly, and presumably even signed a non-disclosure agreement saying he wouldn't speak about the process, who then turned around to talk to the radio about it and very publicly market himself as a finalist.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, this isn't a popularity contest. The fans don't get to text in with a vote. Posting covers on Youtube doesn't help you get the job. Nor does calling yourself an "STP Singer Submission Finalist", and breaking an NDA to tell a radio station there were "hints" you got the gig certainly won't help in any way, shape, or form.

On the other hand, talking with the radio gets your name in the news, with your name in the news you get more internet searches. So you post as many videos of yourself singing STP songs on Youtube as possible, and those videos lead to more bookings. All that that internet promotion does is capitalize on the singer search to get more gigs.

I'm not saying I think there was any ill will on John's part. I think with the language barrier he possibly legitimately didn't understand how quiet they wanted things... And like you said he's aworking class musician and if he has an opportunity he'll take it. However from the band's perspective it could possibly be seen as a betrayal, especially after dealing with Scott's Purple to the Core tour and his various attempts to market himself based on STP.

[EyesOfDisarray]

I don't agree 100% with what Borja has revealed or hinted at, but I agree that I don't think there was any ill will on his part. And that's important. I think the language barrier might have been part of it, but for the rest of it, I don't think he thought he was doing anything that might upset the band.

I know it's not a popularity contest, but I do think applicants' self-promotion did help some in the early stages of the contest. While ultimately, an applicant's popularity won't be the deciding factor, it might have forced the band to pay a little more attention early on to certain people and also might have highlighted those who were willing to go the extra mile. John did lots of videos, which were all well-produced, and some of them were the top results on YouTube for STP singer submissions (still are). I'm sure that helped get him on their radar to begin with.

I agree that it doesn't matter now though, but still if the DeLeos comments were aimed at John, I tend to side with John on this one. Unless they had told John very clearly, "Don't do these things," which he is now doing, I don't think it's fair for them to get upset at him and claim he is doing any of this for inappropriate self-promotion.

[skunkyfunk]

Difference is Stapp is some douche the band never met. Borja on the other hand was someone they actually  invited in and trusted to audition with them quietly, and presumably even signed a non-disclosure agreement saying he wouldn't speak about the process, who then turned around to talk to the radio about it and very publicly market himself as a finalist.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, this isn't a popularity contest. The fans don't get to text in with a vote. Posting covers on Youtube doesn't help you get the job. Nor does calling yourself an "STP Singer Submission Finalist", and breaking an NDA to tell a radio station there were "hints" you got the gig certainly won't help in any way, shape, or form.

On the other hand, talking with the radio gets your name in the news, with your name in the news you get more internet searches. So you post as many videos of yourself singing STP songs on Youtube as possible, and those videos lead to more bookings. All that that internet promotion does is capitalize on the singer search to get more gigs.

I'm not saying I think there was any ill will on John's part. I think with the language barrier he possibly legitimately didn't understand how quiet they wanted things... And like you said he's aworking class musician and if he has an opportunity he'll take it. However from the band's perspective it could possibly be seen as a betrayal, especially after dealing with Scott's Purple to the Core tour and his various attempts to market himself based on STP.

Blue, that was not a radio guesting. It was a website in the Philippines that caters to music. They knew about John's presence in LA which prompted them to email us to confirm if he did get the gig or not while he was still in LA. He could not answer the question because we don't even know where those rumors came from. But out of courtesy we had to dispell those rumors and most of these were answered in Tagalog, which kind of got lost in translation. "Favorable to me" was the closest translation, but what he really meant that these rumors seem to work to his favor (which was none of his doing) but he gave the assurance that whatever STP decides is their call and if he is chosen it would be his honor.

Regarding the videos, based on my knowledge of the causation of events, those videos should be a-ok with the band.

Now regarding bookings. I wanna stress this out. John and his band has been doing bar shows way before the STP submissions, 4-5x a week, and they were doing the same right after. Those videos did not give them more gigs, but it did give them more corporate event offers, which most had to be turned down. Why? Because of scheduling and contract issues of exclusivity.  Like the story of two farmers. Two farmers prayed for rain. One prepared his field, the other did not. John was the former. He had to make sure there would be no issues whatsoever whenever there is a call.

It is unfair to say this is inappropriate self-promotion if the people behind this liked what they saw.

[MAJOR METAL]

I'm hoping we receive news before the end of the year.

[CoconutBackwards]

Difference is Stapp is some douche the band never met. Borja on the other hand was someone they actually  invited in and trusted to audition with them quietly, and presumably even signed a non-disclosure agreement saying he wouldn't speak about the process, who then turned around to talk to the radio about it and very publicly market himself as a finalist.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, this isn't a popularity contest. The fans don't get to text in with a vote. Posting covers on Youtube doesn't help you get the job. Nor does calling yourself an "STP Singer Submission Finalist", and breaking an NDA to tell a radio station there were "hints" you got the gig certainly won't help in any way, shape, or form.

On the other hand, talking with the radio gets your name in the news, with your name in the news you get more internet searches. So you post as many videos of yourself singing STP songs on Youtube as possible, and those videos lead to more bookings. All that that internet promotion does is capitalize on the singer search to get more gigs.

I'm not saying I think there was any ill will on John's part. I think with the language barrier he possibly legitimately didn't understand how quiet they wanted things... And like you said he's aworking class musician and if he has an opportunity he'll take it. However from the band's perspective it could possibly be seen as a betrayal, especially after dealing with Scott's Purple to the Core tour and his various attempts to market himself based on STP.

Blue, that was not a radio guesting. It was a website in the Philippines that caters to music. They knew about John's presence in LA which prompted them to email us to confirm if he did get the gig or not while he was still in LA. He could not answer the question because we don't even know where those rumors came from. But out of courtesy we had to dispell those rumors and most of these were answered in Tagalog, which kind of got lost in translation. "Favorable to me" was the closest translation, but what he really meant that these rumors seem to work to his favor (which was none of his doing) but he gave the assurance that whatever STP decides is their call and if he is chosen it would be his honor.

Regarding the videos, based on my knowledge of the causation of events, those videos should be a-ok with the band.

Now regarding bookings. I wanna stress this out. John and his band has been doing bar shows way before the STP submissions, 4-5x a week, and they were doing the same right after. Those videos did not give them more gigs, but it did give them more corporate event offers, which most had to be turned down. Why? Because of scheduling and contract issues of exclusivity.  Like the story of two farmers. Two farmers prayed for rain. One prepared his field, the other did not. John was the former. He had to make sure there would be no issues whatsoever whenever there is a call.

It is unfair to say this is inappropriate self-promotion if the people behind this liked what they saw.

Drive to Mars if you want the truth.

[EyesOfDisarray]

Drive to Mars if you want the truth.

Jared Leto confirmed STP's new singer!

[Davidssimpson2012]

Pete Murray is a good singer. If he gels well wth the group,  and he can write well...he may be a good choice.

[foou33]

Drive to Mars if you want the truth.

Jared Leto confirmed STP's new singer!

oh god no.