The current state of Rock & Roll...

[seattlesound]

I just wanted to get opinions from people here, and see if there is any sort of discussion there could be over some recent comments by Gene Simmons a few weeks back, talking about how Rock has already died... Now Red Hot Chili Peppers' Flea has sorta chimed in with his view in this article...

http://pigeonsandplanes.com/2016/05/red-hot-chili-peppers-flea-says-rock-music-is-a-dead-form/

Not that we need their quotes to discuss this topic...

It's obvious Rock music hasn't had a movement since the early 90's... Not to say there are not great musicians and bands who have come along in the last 25 years... There are quite a few, and I'm sure we all here know of some great or at least pretty darn good acts out there at the moment, but it really does seem like the interest has been with Pop and Rap for quite a while now.

What's your take on Rock Music in today's time... do you think it's something that will slide further from peoples interest, or do you think there's a chance it could see a surge again?

[CoconutBackwards]

I still like rock, but I don't think rock music matters to me as much as it did when I was 14 and first discovering Soundgarden.

[Hr308]

It all came from Delta Blues anyway. I love Rock and after meeting Gene Simmons, i respect him but he is a selfish opinionated musician. The cool thing is new generations are constantly discovering the older music. I am not a fan of Indy music like Modest Mouse, that shit irritates me.

[DankoJones]

"It's obvious Rock music hasn't had a movement since the early 90's"

Wouldnt say that,  in the later 90s you had the nu metal movement, and there was the era of the "the .. " bands, White Stripes, Strokes etc .  It wasnt as monumental as the early 90s movement but I think that was "Rocks" last hurrah before hiphop and pop really took over

[NickLorenza]

I kind of actually agree with Gene Simmons. And Flea isn't wrong per say. I totally get what he's saying. There was something authentic and edgy about the rock of yesteryear. The energy, the vibe, the attitude, the look....  There was a danger present about it, like an "anything could happen" type vibe. Everything about it seemed genuine in some way. Even 80's metal..... As fake as some might see it, those guys genuinely liked to party hard, live the wild life of excesses.  There is an element of danger that comes along with that. If there wasn't then maybe Def Leppard's drummer would still have 2 arms ya know?

I think the death of rock wasn't a single action, moment, or movement, but instead a slow death that has been part of a perfect storm.  How can I tell rock is dead? And furthermore what was its cause of death?

1. Remember the 80's and the 90's? What were the big acts that were filling stadiums who (at the time were cutting edge) people were excited to go see in big numbers?  Well here's some examples.....Guns n' Roses, Def Leppard, Motley Crüe, and then as we move into the 90's another movement really gains steam and crushes the previous generation. Red Hot Chili Peppers, Pearl Jam, Nirvana, STP etc...... Ok, here we are, it's 2016..... And what new bands are taking the nation by storm selling out huge stadiums for a summer tour with massive radio station support? Hmmmm....... Can't think of any. Can you?

For the last God knows how many years I think the big summer tours are always the same OLD bands. Pearl Jam, Foo Fighters, RHCP, Motley Crüe, Def Leppard, KISS, etc. This summer it's GNR and ACDC.... Bunch of dudes who were cutting edge in the 70's, 80's and 90's. These guys didn't become legendary because they were calculated and safe in their heyday. No, the element of that anything can happen danger was present.

The fact that the same old acts are the big shows of the summer tells me that there hasn't been a changing of the guard in quite some time.  No one has really taken the torch from the 90's alt rock heroes yet.


2. I feel downloading of music is partially responsible for rock's death. Not for the angle of stealing music so much either. Although the whole stealing music has led to artists having to make money through touring and merch sales at shows which in turn has driven concert prices through the roof. And what kid these days can afford to go to an expensive show?  And if kids aren't going to shows they probably aren't getting heavily into the artists and arent inspired by performances to create their own rock. But, stealing and its trickle down effects aren't my focus here. I think the biggest way downloading, be it legal or illegal, has ruined rock is because now people can pick and choose the exact songs they want. Years ago you bought an album, tape, or cd, and you were at least exposed to all the tracks on the recording. People don't have the attention span for full length rock albums anymore because of downloading. There is something very sacred about the whole full length album experience that a lot of people have been missing out on since about 1999.  This is why Weiland was right when he bitched about rock albums not selling.


3. As cliche as it sounds, September 11th really contributed to killing rock. How? Well, in a way most people don't even think about..... Before September 11th there were a lot of all ages venues. Rock has always really been about the kids right? Gotta get to em in those teen years. The sharp increase in the cost of insurance for venues in a post September 11th world caused the near extinction of many all ages venues. So now people under 21 can't go to a lot of shows. If you don't get em in those teen years then something else will captivate their attention. (Enter EDM)

4. At the shows that do exist then you have many more limitations to make shows a "safer environment". I'm talking no moshing, no crowd surfing, and no smoking. It's like they cut the balls off of rock shows. The rock show went from a place kids could go be rebellious teens and smoke and try to sneak a drink behind their parents' back to a place where you couldn't do any of that. And moshing or crowd surfing? Big no no.... Too much risk of an insurance premium increase from a potential lawsuit. So pretty much, shows went from being pretty much free for all parties to a gigantic bore. I mean everyone just stands there, low energy, clap politely between songs. I've seen high school detentions with more energy and elements of danger than some rock shows I've been to post 2001. And from a rebellious teen's standpoint.... It's crazy, we live in a world now where it's practically easier for a rebellious teen kid to buy heroin than a pack of smokes or sneak a beer at a show. Both normal things kids try as a part of growing up.

5. For me personally this was the first shot fired at rock n roll...... The death of tolerable rock radio.  For me the year was 1998, Rock 103.5 in Chicago signed off the air for the last time. This also happened to be the year where the new artists and their singles just got really stale to me. It started in the end of 1997 but by fall 1998 I despised mainstream rock radio. The artists they were pushing were just total shit at that point.

6. This might sound crazy to you but in very recent years Chicago, where I live, didn't even have a modern rock radio station! It disappeared for a few years then just recently someone bought the rights to the old name and got it going again. But think about that.... The third largest city in America didn't even have a modern rock station for a few years. THAT is how bad things had gotten with rock music. If you wanted rock in Chicago you had to settle for the same old classic rock over and over and over again. I swear to God The Loop plays Back In Black probably every fucking hour. And if I have to hear Running Down A Dream one more time...... Just one more fucking time..... I stopped listening to the radio altogether. Sad because from  end of 1992 until end of 1997 I spent more time with rock radio than anything else. It was actually really good back then.

7. I didn't want to forget.....MySpace helped put a final nail in rock's coffin. As great as their search tools were for finding bands and being able to book your own tours, the downside was even bigger. That was every fucking band and their mother in your face all the time begging you to check out their music. It was such a turn off for myself and many others I knew. I used to want to see opening bands. It was exciting to anticipate how they would be. Maybe you'd find someone new and cool ya know? MySpace with every band in the world and their mothers all up in my face trying to promote their shit absolutely fucking ruined that experience of anticipating the opening band for me. Made me just want to put on the blinders and only see the band I came for. That isn't right. Damn you MySpace, and fuck you Tom!


Anyway, combine all of this and what you get is this watered down very generic sounding music that isn't even good enough to be called a shadow of rock. Everything is very calculated, the balls have been cut off, there is no anything can happen element any longer.

We are long overdue for a big movement in music. Someone please make rock great again!  Although I don't know if it will be rock that stars in the next big movement.

Anyway these are just my thoughts.

[Scarlett]

There really hasn't been any innovation in American rock in a very long time.  I stopped listening to radio a decade ago?

As far as American rock, I listen to early 90's and back.  Same with British rock.  I can't name one rock band that plays now.  Not one.  I am very out of the loop.  I've listened to Japanese rock for years and I love it.  I think BUCK-TICK, for example is fantastic.  They've been around as long as Metallica (they don't sound like Metallica) and had labels come to them, not the other way around.

Something that "killed" rock for me was being in school when boy bands were popular.  And that horrific metal rap amalgamation.  It makes you appreciate a band like STP more when everything around you is SO SO bad.

I'm all over the place but can rock really be killed?  Tragically, maybe.

[Flyingmerpa]

.

[Hr308]

I kind of actually agree with Gene Simmons. And Flea isn't wrong per say. I totally get what he's saying. There was something authentic and edgy about the rock of yesteryear. The energy, the vibe, the attitude, the look....  There was a danger present about it, like an "anything could happen" type vibe. Everything about it seemed genuine in some way. Even 80's metal..... As fake as some might see it, those guys genuinely liked to party hard, live the wild life of excesses.  There is an element of danger that comes along with that. If there wasn't then maybe Def Leppard's drummer would still have 2 arms ya know?

I think the death of rock wasn't a single action, moment, or movement, but instead a slow death that has been part of a perfect storm.  How can I tell rock is dead? And furthermore what was its cause of death?




1. Remember the 80's and the 90's? What were the big acts that were filling stadiums who (at the time were cutting edge) people were excited to go see in big numbers?  Well here's some examples.....Guns n' Roses, Def Leppard, Motley Crüe, and then as we move into the 90's another movement really gains steam and crushes the previous generation. Red Hot Chili Peppers, Pearl Jam, Nirvana, STP etc...... Ok, here we are, it's 2016..... And what new bands are taking the nation by storm selling out huge stadiums for a summer tour with massive radio station support? Hmmmm....... Can't think of any. Can you?

For the last God knows how many years I think the big summer tours are always the same OLD bands. Pearl Jam, Foo Fighters, RHCP, Motley Crüe, Def Leppard, KISS, etc. This summer it's GNR and ACDC.... Bunch of dudes who were cutting edge in the 70's, 80's and 90's. These guys didn't become legendary because they were calculated and safe in their heyday. No, the element of that anything can happen danger was present.

The fact that the same old acts are the big shows of the summer tells me that there hasn't been a changing of the guard in quite some time.  No one has really taken the torch from the 90's alt rock heroes yet.


2. I feel downloading of music is partially responsible for rock's death. Not for the angle of stealing music so much either. Although the whole stealing music has led to artists having to make money through touring and merch sales at shows which in turn has driven concert prices through the roof. And what kid these days can afford to go to an expensive show?  And if kids aren't going to shows they probably aren't getting heavily into the artists and arent inspired by performances to create their own rock. But, stealing and its trickle down effects aren't my focus here. I think the biggest way downloading, be it legal or illegal, has ruined rock is because now people can pick and choose the exact songs they want. Years ago you bought an album, tape, or cd, and you were at least exposed to all the tracks on the recording. People don't have the attention span for full length rock albums anymore because of downloading. There is something very sacred about the whole full length album experience that a lot of people have been missing out on since about 1999.  This is why Weiland was right when he bitched about rock albums not selling.


3. As cliche as it sounds, September 11th really contributed to killing rock. How? Well, in a way most people don't even think about..... Before September 11th there were a lot of all ages venues. Rock has always really been about the kids right? Gotta get to em in those teen years. The sharp increase in the cost of insurance for venues in a post September 11th world caused the near extinction of many all ages venues. So now people under 21 can't go to a lot of shows. If you don't get em in those teen years then something else will captivate their attention. (Enter EDM)

4. At the shows that do exist then you have many more limitations to make shows a "safer environment". I'm talking no moshing, no crowd surfing, and no smoking. It's like they cut the balls off of rock shows. The rock show went from a place kids could go be rebellious teens and smoke and try to sneak a drink behind their parents' back to a place where you couldn't do any of that. And moshing or crowd surfing? Big no no.... Too much risk of an insurance premium increase from a potential lawsuit. So pretty much, shows went from being pretty much free for all parties to a gigantic bore. I mean everyone just stands there, low energy, clap politely between songs. I've seen high school detentions with more energy and elements of danger than some rock shows I've been to post 2001. And from a rebellious teen's standpoint.... It's crazy, we live in a world now where it's practically easier for a rebellious teen kid to buy heroin than a pack of smokes or sneak a beer at a show. Both normal things kids try as a part of growing up.

5. For me personally this was the first shot fired at rock n roll...... The death of tolerable rock radio.  For me the year was 1998, Rock 103.5 in Chicago signed off the air for the last time. This also happened to be the year where the new artists and their singles just got really stale to me. It started in the end of 1997 but by fall 1998 I despised mainstream rock radio. The artists they were pushing were just total shit at that point.

6. This might sound crazy to you but in very recent years Chicago, where I live, didn't even have a modern rock radio station! It disappeared for a few years then just recently someone bought the rights to the old name and got it going again. But think about that.... The third largest city in America didn't even have a modern rock station for a few years. THAT is how bad things had gotten with rock music. If you wanted rock in Chicago you had to settle for the same old classic rock over and over and over again. I swear to God The Loop plays Back In Black probably every fucking hour. And if I have to hear Running Down A Dream one more time...... Just one more fucking time..... I stopped listening to the radio altogether. Sad because from  end of 1992 until end of 1997 I spent more time with rock radio than anything else. It was actually really good back then.

7. I didn't want to forget.....MySpace helped put a final nail in rock's coffin. As great as their search tools were for finding bands and being able to book your own tours, the downside was even bigger. That was every fucking band and their mother in your face all the time begging you to check out their music. It was such a turn off for myself and many others I knew. I used to want to see opening bands. It was exciting to anticipate how they would be. Maybe you'd find someone new and cool ya know? MySpace with every band in the world and their mothers all up in my face trying to promote their shit absolutely fucking ruined that experience of anticipating the opening band for me. Made me just want to put on the blinders and only see the band I came for. That isn't right. Damn you MySpace, and fuck you Tom!


Anyway, combine all of this and what you get is this watered down very generic sounding music that isn't even good enough to be called a shadow of rock. Everything is very calculated, the balls have been cut off, there is no anything can happen element any longer.

We are long overdue for a big movement in music. Someone please make rock great again!  Although I don't know if it will be rock that stars in the next big movement.

Anyway these are just my thoughts.

Nice Job Nick, at least you were in depth i took the shortcut. Well said,well spoken

[CoconutBackwards]

It all came from Delta Blues anyway. I love Rock and after meeting Gene Simmons, i respect him but he is a selfish opinionated musician. The cool thing is new generations are constantly discovering the older music. I am not a fan of Indy music like Modest Mouse, that shit irritates me.

Constant name dropping is also irritating.

[Hr308]

It all came from Delta Blues anyway. I love Rock and after meeting Gene Simmons, i respect him but he is a selfish opinionated musician. The cool thing is new generations are constantly discovering the older music. I am not a fan of Indy music like Modest Mouse, that shit irritates me.

Constant name dropping is also irritating.



Sorry coconut I just have played music for over 35 years. Shit happens

[NickLorenza]

Let me also add.....


1. Nirvana, my favorite band of all time, absolutely changed the game, but in doing so the end result years later is they absolutely ruined rock too.  Because of them any and everyone thought they could start a band. People who obviously have zero knack for songwriting, zero talent for performing, zero stage energy, and posess zero authenticity all of a sudden started bands. The prices of guitars (specifically old fenders) went through the roof.


2. The advent of mall punk. Yeah, that's right you know who you are HOT TOPIC.... When punk became a mega mainstream fashion it was all over.  I have said this since 1997 and I'll say it once again...  Punk in its true form is the against the grain, anti-establishment movement.  Where do we go when the anti-establishment has become the establishment? That's right, punk died years ago. And fuck all the claims these guys make about punk being alive and well because some kids are out there somewhere playing in a basement. While there may potentially be some kids out there who hold it sacred, that just doesn't cut it. The movement is dead. It's fucking bastardized, raped, and dead. When my bank has posters up to sell savings accounts that were designed and approved by some corporate jag off which have pictures of "punk rock kids" playing in a garage that say something along the lines of "saving for just the right gear to rock the house"........ uuuugh..... It's so fake it makes me cringe. It's been over.


Thankfully, this whole "where do we go when the anti-establishment becomes the establishment" thing applies to rap and will eventually be its downfall too. It may take a while, but it will come. It took rock about 50 years or so to die.


3. I think the concerts most people look forward to and get amped up the most about these days are the ones where someone old is reuniting.  Holy shit!!!!!! GN'R!!!!!   Holy shit!!!!!!! The Replacements!!!!!!!!!   Holy Shit!!!!!!!!! The Misfits with fucking Danzig!!!!!!  (How I haven't seen a thread on this board about this one yet is beyond me) Holy Shit!!!!!!! Nirvana!!!!!!!   I mean, at this point I think the only bands that haven't reunited are TAD and Husker Du.


This whole phenomena tells you something though.... People really aren't getting excited about new bands so much.




4.  The unholy marriage of rap and metal sucked a fat one and turned a lot of people off.  Weiland during the 2000 house of blues performance, as the band was about to go into Vasoline, states something about LA.  Something along the lines of "this city used to be all about the rock n roll, where's the rock n roll?"  And he says something about STP bringing the rock back to LA.   And I believe it was at HOB '99 where he says something about being in the era of very bad rock radio music. It was all true. When the best frontman since Freddie Mercury, perhaps ever, is telling you something that he's seeing, it's not an illusion it's really happening.  Rock died in front of our faces, on our watch. And all we did was watched as it happened. As we were spoon fed P.O.D. And Default......



5. Another fair assessment that can be made is.....The discontent that Americans feel with this whole 2016 presidential campaign where it's all just so bad and rotten on both sides that it makes you want to just tune out and not even participate.....I liken that same discontent to what most people eventually came to feel about rock music. The choices they were given just were horrid from all angles.

[JBattista]

The entire alternative genre has gone to complete shit. The fact that I'm seeing Cuntford and Sons on "alternative/alt rock" radio is saddening. It's because this generation does not care about the meaning of the songs, if it's a cute guy playing his little guitar and singing about the same shit that every other new artist sings about (especially new country), they'll dance to it. It's all about them being able to dance to it. Music is so cringeworthy these days. Don't even get me started about new "hip hop"....

[STPGurl]

It all came from Delta Blues anyway. I love Rock and after meeting Gene Simmons, i respect him but he is a selfish opinionated musician. The cool thing is new generations are constantly discovering the older music. I am not a fan of Indy music like Modest Mouse, that shit irritates me.

Constant name dropping is also irritating.



Sorry coconut I just have played music for over 35 years. Shit happens

No, not "shit happens" - it's "you're a douche."

The only thing you post about is yourself. You chime in on conversations that have nothing to fucking do with you and attempt to make them about you. You interject irrelevant, childish garbage into every single conversation you include yourself in. I have been a member of this forum (or similar incarnation of it) for 20 years now, and you are by far one of the most obnoxious jackasses that has ever decided to grace us with your presence. Shut the fuck up already.

To everyone else: you're welcome   

[TheWaterThatYouLeave]

It all came from Delta Blues anyway. I love Rock and after meeting Gene Simmons, i respect him but he is a selfish opinionated musician. The cool thing is new generations are constantly discovering the older music. I am not a fan of Indy music like Modest Mouse, that shit irritates me.

Constant name dropping is also irritating.



Sorry coconut I just have played music for over 35 years. Shit happens

No, not "shit happens" - it's "you're a douche."

The only thing you post about is yourself. You chime in on conversations that have nothing to fucking do with you and attempt to make them about you. You interject irrelevant, childish garbage into every single conversation you include yourself in. I have been a member of this forum (or similar incarnation of it) for 20 years now, and you are by far one of the most obnoxious jackasses that has ever decided to grace us with your presence. Shut the fuck up already.

To everyone else: you're welcome   

Firm but fair.

[I-want-a-time-machine]

It all came from Delta Blues anyway. I love Rock and after meeting Gene Simmons, i respect him but he is a selfish opinionated musician. The cool thing is new generations are constantly discovering the older music. I am not a fan of Indy music like Modest Mouse, that shit irritates me.

Constant name dropping is also irritating.



Sorry coconut I just have played music for over 35 years. Shit happens

No, not "shit happens" - it's "you're a douche."

The only thing you post about is yourself. You chime in on conversations that have nothing to fucking do with you and attempt to make them about you. You interject irrelevant, childish garbage into every single conversation you include yourself in. I have been a member of this forum (or similar incarnation of it) for 20 years now, and you are by far one of the most obnoxious jackasses that has ever decided to grace us with your presence. Shut the fuck up already.

To everyone else: you're welcome   

Firm but fair.

agreeing wholeheartedly with STPgirl, since onree has graced us with his annoying presence I tend to stay away from this forum most of the time...About time someone said it, thanks.
Anyway, NickLorenza makes a lot of sense.