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Author Topic: Led Zeppelin copyright suit, your take  (Read 2748 times)


foou33

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Re: Led Zeppelin copyright suit, your take
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2016, 04:39:49 AM »
I think they're gonna lose this one. They toured with Spirit before Stairway came out, there is a good chance they heard Taurus at some point. And there is the whole, them ripping off a ton of other people too. Even if they did copy the Taurus riff, I don't care, Stairway is a much better song.

DankoJones

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Re: Led Zeppelin copyright suit, your take
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2016, 02:41:57 AM »
This isn't the first time Zepp has had a claim made against them.  I heard about this one years ago and I think it's legitimate
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Pingfah

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Re: Led Zeppelin copyright suit, your take
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2016, 10:13:02 AM »
It's tough, but I think nothing is created in a vacuum, art wise, and I think the bar for what is considered plagiarism is set too low. At the end of the day, although there's recognisable themes from other works in Zepp's music, what they create is a complete product in it's own right. Nobody would listen to both songs and say that they sound like the same song, and that's what is important.

Imagine if early blues artists all sued each other for such reworking of themes, the entire 20th century would have been one big lawsuit and we wouldn't even HAVE Led Zeppelin.

Sklashboombash

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Re: Led Zeppelin copyright suit, your take
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2016, 04:30:12 PM »
I think this is a big blow for the prosecution.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/led-zeppelin-knocks-sound-recordings-887635

The jury won't hear about Jimmy Page's drug use nor about "serial plagiarism."

Those who have listened to Spirit's "Taurus" and hear similarity to the opening guitar riff in "Stairway to Heaven" might expect Led Zeppelin to be in trouble at a copyright trial scheduled for May 10. However, don't bet against Led Zeppelin just yet. On Monday, the defendants scored some key victories that will severely limit the testimony and evidence heard by a jury.

Perhaps most important, U.S. District Judge R. Gary Klausner has decided to exclude many of the "Taurus" sound recordings that the Randy Craig Wolfe Trust (which counts itself as a beneficial owner of Spirit member Randy California's works) wanted to play for the jury. The "Taurus" copyright is limited to what was deposited with the Copyright Office in 1967 and so the judge has agreed with Led Zeppelin that the only recordings to be presented for the jury's ears are the ones transcribed from the copyrighted sheet music.

What's more, the judge has rejected all of the plaintiff's experts because these musicologists prepared their reports and opinions by relying upon sound recordings that embodied unprotected performance elements.

That's not to say for sure that the Randy Craig Wolfe Trust won't have any experts testifying. Judge Klausner has given the plaintiff five days to submit new expert reports "purged" of what's unprotected.

Led Zeppelin's pretrial victories hardly stop there.

The band also has gotten the judge to bar any testimony on how Led Zeppelin has a history of plagiarism. The jury also won't hear about the wealth of Jimmy Page and Robert Plant. Nor will jurors be able to consider how Led Zeppelin bandmembers used drugs and alcohol. The plaintiffs wanted to use evidence of the latter to throw doubts on Page's recollection that he never heard Spirit's "Taurus" when composing "Stairway to Heaven." In fact, the judge also won't let the jury consider the many newspaper articles and book excerpts that addressed Led Zeppelin's alleged lifting of songcraft except for  two statements made by Page in magazine interviews. When Page testifies (more on that in a moment), the Randy Craig Wolfe Trust will attempt to use his prior recollections to impeach him.

As for what the plaintiff wished to exclude at trial, Klausner has decided not to let Led Zeppelin challenge the validity of Randy Craig Wolfe Trust, but will let the defendant introduce evidence that the "Taurus" copyright is actually owned by Randy California's son, Quinn Wolfe, instead of the Trust.

At a hearing yesterday, Francis Malofiy, attorney for the plaintiff, reportedly spoke of his concern that Page and Plant wouldn't present themselves to testify. The judge may not have the authority to order the two U.K. citizens to the trial. On the other hand, both have undergone depositions that will likely be played for the jury, assuming there's no settlement in the next two weeks that avoids a trial.
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Scott4ever

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Re: Led Zeppelin copyright suit, your take
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2016, 05:31:54 PM »
I knew the questions, but I lost the answers...
STP:  July 2, 1994 (cancelled)/September 4, 1994/November 20, 1996/May 5, 1997/July 26, 2000/December 31, 2001/October 8, 2002/August 22, 2008 (cancelled)
VR:  December 8, 2004/May 24, 2005/September 6, 2005/October 6, 2007
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Scott4ever

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Re: Led Zeppelin copyright suit, your take
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2016, 05:33:15 PM »
I knew the questions, but I lost the answers...
STP:  July 2, 1994 (cancelled)/September 4, 1994/November 20, 1996/May 5, 1997/July 26, 2000/December 31, 2001/October 8, 2002/August 22, 2008 (cancelled)
VR:  December 8, 2004/May 24, 2005/September 6, 2005/October 6, 2007
Scott Weiland and The Wildabouts:  March 6, 2015

Blue

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Re: Led Zeppelin copyright suit, your take
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2016, 09:19:24 PM »
https://youtu.be/KTHwlLW2QQ8

Exactly this. You can't copyright a descending riff in a minor key any more than you copyright a chord progression.

I'm surprised this case has made it this far. Aside from the two riffs being no where near identical, there's the simple fact is there isn't a single component of Stairway that resembles anything of Taurus beyond both having descending minor guitar riffs.

And whether Jimmy Page took influence from Taurus is completely irrelevant... You can't sue someone for writing something completely new inspired by something old. The song doesn't have a single bar that is identical to bar of Taurus.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2016, 09:48:21 PM by Blue »
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CoconutBackwards

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Toxic34

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Re: Led Zeppelin copyright suit, your take
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2016, 10:39:28 PM »
Quote
Exactly this. You can't copyright a descending riff in a minor key any more than you copyright a chord progression.

I'm surprised this case has made it this far. Aside from the two riffs being no where near identical, there's the simple fact is there isn't a single component of Stairway that resembles anything of Taurus beyond both having descending minor guitar riffs.

And whether Jimmy Page took influence from Taurus is completely irrelevant... You can't sue someone for writing something completely new inspired by something old. The song doesn't have a single bar that is identical to bar of Taurus.

What do you think of this? Randy California clearly thought they sounded completely alike. In a remastered album's liner notes, he wrote the following: "People always ask me why "Stairway to Heaven" sounds exactly like "Taurus", which was released two years earlier. I know Led Zeppelin also played Fresh Garbage in their live set. They opened up for us on their first American tour."

Blue

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Re: Led Zeppelin copyright suit, your take
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2016, 12:05:19 AM »
Quote
Exactly this. You can't copyright a descending riff in a minor key any more than you copyright a chord progression.

I'm surprised this case has made it this far. Aside from the two riffs being no where near identical, there's the simple fact is there isn't a single component of Stairway that resembles anything of Taurus beyond both having descending minor guitar riffs.

And whether Jimmy Page took influence from Taurus is completely irrelevant... You can't sue someone for writing something completely new inspired by something old. The song doesn't have a single bar that is identical to bar of Taurus.

What do you think of this? Randy California clearly thought they sounded completely alike. In a remastered album's liner notes, he wrote the following: "People always ask me why "Stairway to Heaven" sounds exactly like "Taurus", which was released two years earlier. I know Led Zeppelin also played Fresh Garbage in their live set. They opened up for us on their first American tour."

Well, obviously he was wrong. They have a similarly phrased descending lick a minor lick, that's it. Everything else is entirely different. The lawsuit even specifically claims they are only suing for the opening riff.

The simple fact is the first few bars have a similarly phrased descending lick in A minor... However, in Stairway that lick is paired with is paired with an ascending lick, which is completely absent in Taurus, and the remainder of that riff is entirely different.

Now, there is no doubt in my mind that Page was at the very least subconsciously inspired by Taurus, but that doesn't mean the song was plagiarized. If you can claim copyright infringement on entire song simply because a couple bars of a riff have a similar lick, then that means that it is impossible to write rock music because just about every lick possible has been recorded at some time.

Let's put it in this context. The bridge melody in Between the Lines by STP is very clearly the verse melody to Stay Away from Nirvana. Is it fair to say that everything Rob, Kretz, Dean and Scott did in that song is plagiarism because Scott either intentionally or unintenionally lifted that one part? Is it fair to say that Kurt Cobain deserves a writing credit in the song because of that one bridge?
« Last Edit: April 28, 2016, 12:13:37 AM by Blue »
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EyesOfDisarray

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Re: Led Zeppelin copyright suit, your take
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2016, 01:14:17 AM »
The bridge melody in Between the Lines by STP is very clearly the verse melody to Stay Away from Nirvana. Is it fair to say that everything Rob, Kretz, Dean and Scott did in that song is plagiarism because Scott either intentionally or unintenionally lifted that one part? Is it fair to say that Kurt Cobain deserves a writing credit in the song because of that one bridge?

Just like the Rolling Stones deserve credit for Big Bang Baby.

Scott4ever

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Re: Led Zeppelin copyright suit, your take
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2016, 01:24:36 AM »
This is a money grab and nothing more.  Even with the latest..."we'd take just $1, and credit, for a settlement" - of course knowing receiving songwriting credit would lead to mucho dinero. As has been said earlier, there really is no comparison.  Btw, how long has Randy been deceased?
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Hr308

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Re: Led Zeppelin copyright suit, your take
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2016, 01:39:22 AM »


How about Kid Rock totally ripping off " Werewolves of London", ol Warren Zevon is rolling in his grave.

foou33

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Re: Led Zeppelin copyright suit, your take
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2016, 04:00:05 AM »

How about Kid Rock totally ripping off " Werewolves of London", ol Warren Zevon is rolling in his grave.

How about Warren Zevon totally ripping off "Sweet Home Alabama". I don't think Kid Rock claimed to have written any of that song. In fact I think he sampled both Sweet Home and Werewolves.