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Author Topic: Scott Weiland found Dead  (Read 95154 times)

Westenn

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Re: Scott Weiland found Dead
« Reply #330 on: December 12, 2015, 02:50:16 AM »
Scott being on Klonopin ...well...it actually explains a lot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clonazepam#Adverse_effects

Combined with the other stuff, and especially drinking?!


Interestingly, it is also used to treat alcohol withdrawal.

Notice one of the side affects is personality changes...

The Doctor prescribed him tranquilizers?!  He should have just shot him in the back of the head.  I'm so angry right now cuz I  said that a couple of weeks ago; The medications he taking is killing him.  Why on earth would a Doctor who knows his addiction background prescribe him tranquilizers?! Benzos are hard core meds that is so difficult to detox out of cuz of the body dependency it creates.  So now we are looking at Klonopin, Viagra (since it is heart related and he went into cardiac arrest.  Viagra relaxes muscles found in the walls of blood vessels and increases blood flow to particular areas of the body (high blood pressure in the lungs.)) and the possibility of him doing coke.   It explains a lot and I only wish I could have known him to help him.  I can see why his circulatory system failed.  All I want to know is who is the name of this Doctor?  I'm so sorry Scott.

 8) :-* :'(
And I Got U 2 Paint the Roses on My Grave

artsyblacksmith

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Re: Scott Weiland found Dead
« Reply #331 on: December 12, 2015, 04:01:20 AM »
20 years, 20 years of chance after chance after chance. He still didn't want it. Friends and fans and bandmates who loved him and tried with him. Along with misfortunes, he was still blessed with talent, 2 children plus a stepson and a new beautiful wife. He still didn't want it. Dreams to live In Sonoma and grow old gracefully with Jamie. He wasted it all away in the back of a DAMN bus for a 30 min high. Why are we all surprised , why? His mother sent him to a mental institute when he was a child  for a reason ..... He had mental issues we cannot deny that .. And she saw it. Thanks for the ride Scott your mental denial got you through 47 years. It was a crazy ride.

XO

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Re: Scott Weiland found Dead
« Reply #332 on: December 12, 2015, 07:16:50 AM »
Scott being on Klonopin ...well...it actually explains a lot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clonazepam#Adverse_effects

Combined with the other stuff, and especially drinking?!


Interestingly, it is also used to treat alcohol withdrawal.

Notice one of the side affects is personality changes...

The Doctor prescribed him tranquilizers?!  He should have just shot him in the back of the head.  I'm so angry right now cuz I  said that a couple of weeks ago; The medications he taking is killing him.  Why on earth would a Doctor who knows his addiction background prescribe him tranquilizers?! Benzos are hard core meds that is so difficult to detox out of cuz of the body dependency it creates.  So now we are looking at Klonopin, Viagra (since it is heart related and he went into cardiac arrest.  Viagra relaxes muscles found in the walls of blood vessels and increases blood flow to particular areas of the body (high blood pressure in the lungs.)) and the possibility of him doing coke.   It explains a lot and I only wish I could have known him to help him.  I can see why his circulatory system failed.  All I want to know is who is the name of this Doctor?  I'm so sorry Scott.

 8) :-* :'(


All of this sucks and we wish we could have helped, but wait until the reports come back.  Too many variables could come in to play here.  Not all of the meds could have been his, somebody could have gotten them for him, they could have been old, he could have gotten them from different doctors and nobody knows what he took.  You aren't supposed to drink either when taking some of those, so he could have gotten them when he was clean.  Enjoy what he left us.

The Legacy

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Re: Scott Weiland found Dead
« Reply #333 on: December 12, 2015, 09:35:35 AM »
20 years, 20 years of chance after chance after chance. He still didn't want it. Friends and fans and bandmates who loved him and tried with him. Along with misfortunes, he was still blessed with talent, 2 children plus a stepson and a new beautiful wife. He still didn't want it. Dreams to live In Sonoma and grow old gracefully with Jamie. He wasted it all away in the back of a DAMN bus for a 30 min high. Why are we all surprised , why? His mother sent him to a mental institute when he was a child  for a reason ..... He had mental issues we cannot deny that .. And she saw it. Thanks for the ride Scott your mental denial got you through 47 years. It was a crazy ride.
If you think it's as simple as making a choice and wanting to be better then you don't understand addiction. A little more complicated

Down-Plush

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Re: Scott Weiland found Dead
« Reply #334 on: December 12, 2015, 03:45:37 PM »
20 years, 20 years of chance after chance after chance. He still didn't want it. Friends and fans and bandmates who loved him and tried with him. Along with misfortunes, he was still blessed with talent, 2 children plus a stepson and a new beautiful wife. He still didn't want it. Dreams to live In Sonoma and grow old gracefully with Jamie. He wasted it all away in the back of a DAMN bus for a 30 min high. Why are we all surprised , why? His mother sent him to a mental institute when he was a child  for a reason ..... He had mental issues we cannot deny that .. And she saw it. Thanks for the ride Scott your mental denial got you through 47 years. It was a crazy ride.
If you think it's as simple as making a choice and wanting to be better then you don't understand addiction. A little more complicated
I was gonna say...it's definitely not as simple as making a choice. It isn't some decision that you make and then you stick to for the rest of your days and everything is peachy. You don't have to have mental illness to be a hard addict either. I imagine he "wanted" to be clean just fine at many points in his career. In fact, his many attempts to get sober via various methods of rehab are evidence enough of that.

artsyblacksmith

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Re: Scott Weiland found Dead
« Reply #335 on: December 12, 2015, 04:51:06 PM »
Everyone still giving excuses...well look where all theexcuses got him. You guys are wrong on every aspect and should be ashamed of yourselves for still giving excuses. An addict has to want it deeply in their soul and mind a strong need of getting sober and he still didn't WANT it. It's over. His Children for christs sake! If that's not enough than what is in this world.

Fear 2 Stop

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Re: Scott Weiland found Dead
« Reply #336 on: December 12, 2015, 04:55:02 PM »
They're not excuses...addiction is never that cut and dried.

Down-Plush

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Re: Scott Weiland found Dead
« Reply #337 on: December 12, 2015, 04:58:03 PM »
Everyone still giving excuses...well look where all theexcuses got him. You guys are wrong on every aspect and should be ashamed of yourselves for still giving excuses. An addict has to want it deeply in their soul and mind a strong need of getting sober and he still didn't WANT it. It's over. His Children for christs sake! If that's not enough than what is in this world.
You're a freaking idiot. It is not that black and white. Instead of saying we're wrong, why don't you read up on it more for yourself, you doorknob.

The Legacy

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Re: Scott Weiland found Dead
« Reply #338 on: December 12, 2015, 05:21:42 PM »
Everyone still giving excuses...well look where all theexcuses got him. You guys are wrong on every aspect and should be ashamed of yourselves for still giving excuses. An addict has to want it deeply in their soul and mind a strong need of getting sober and he still didn't WANT it. It's over. His Children for christs sake! If that's not enough than what is in this world.
You're a freaking idiot. It is not that black and white. Instead of saying we're wrong, why don't you read up on it more for yourself, you doorknob.
You and I don't always agree but we could not be any more on the same page with this topic

CritterTypeThing

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Re: Scott Weiland found Dead
« Reply #339 on: December 12, 2015, 05:36:28 PM »
Everyone still giving excuses...well look where all theexcuses got him. You guys are wrong on every aspect and should be ashamed of yourselves for still giving excuses. An addict has to want it deeply in their soul and mind a strong need of getting sober and he still didn't WANT it. It's over. His Children for christs sake! If that's not enough than what is in this world.

You're correct that an addict does need to want it deeply to have a better shot of escape.  However, it still requires a hell of a lot more than just determination.  You seem to be ignoring many other factors in the road to recovery, and choosing to just focus on the mindframe.

If only it were that simple....
Hold me closer.....closer.....let me go!

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lovemachine97

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Re: Scott Weiland found Dead
« Reply #340 on: December 12, 2015, 08:49:19 PM »
The most recent science on addiction seems to reject what we have long thought, that drugs take over your survival mechanism and your brain thinks you need them to survive. I am not definitively saying that doesn't happen to people, but what we seem to be finding out is that a lot of people truly have what is actually a very bad habit, but the criminal justice system forces them into rehab programs that teach them that they have no control over the drug and must admit that only a higher power can help them. While that may be true for some, it is likely not true for many of the people we sent to rehab, and thus those whose survival mechanisms haven't been hijacked believe they have no power over their own addiction.

Jacob Sullum of Reason has been covering this for years, and Johan Hari has recently written a book about it. The same rhetoric we all remember from DARE about drugs--that they will kill you because you will be addicted at the first drop--was also used in propaganda pieces to outlaw alcohol. The problem was that too many Americans drank and knew that most people could have a drink here and there and no get addicted. Sure, there were problem drinkers, but the vast majority of drinkers were not addicted, despite drinking more than one drop.

This worked for harder drugs, however, and the federal entity responsible for overseeing saw the writing on the wall and moved on to other drugs like marijuana, cocaine, and heroin. Not only did they use the same propaganda then, they also based most of it on racial fears--Blacks on cocaine were better marksman, unhurt by bullets, and would go after White women. Mexicans get 'crazed' on their marijuana. The Chinese were 'crazed' and would rape White women on their opium.

While there are heroin addicts, the government's own data on use shows that the vast majority of people who have tried it either use it recreationally or not again (only a small percentage of those who try it have used it in the last 30 days). There are also prescription drug addicts on drugs related to heroin. But heroin was invented by Bayer in the late-19th century and marketed as a non-addictive alternative to morphine. But other than a slight change to the structure that allows heroin to break the blood-brain barrier faster than morphine, it is otherwise morphine, and the body metabolizes it as morphine.

Hospitals use morphine all the time, and often use heroin, depending where you are in the 1st world. Of course, the versions used for pain in hospitals are all medically pure. But if the long-understood propaganda about heroin were true, we'd have millions of people looking to score on the streets after leaving the hospital and being treated with morphine or heroin. But we don't.

The long-standing heroin model is based upon experiments done with rats. You put a rat in a cage, give it two water bottles--one normal, one laced with, usually, heroin or cocaine--and see what it does. In nearly every case, it uses the laced water until it dies. Decades later, another scientist had an idea. So he created what he called "Rat Park," and in this particularly large cage was everything a rate could want. Friends, things to look at and push around, and other rats to have sex with. The same two water bottles were offered, and the rats rarely touched the laced water.

We have a human experiment that is very similar. During Vietnam, something like 25% of US soldiers began using heroin and said they were addicted. But a strange thing happened when they returned home. 90-95% stopped using when they came home. But with all we thought we knew about hard drugs, how could that be?

The answer turns out to be that alcohol is much more damaging to the human body than medically pure heroin. The most damaging things about heroin are all a result of prohibition--sharing needles, unknown purity, what it might be cut with. What is also dangerous about drug use and causes overdoses is using more than one drug at a time. Nearly always with these young overdoses they have more than one drug in their system.

What scientists have recently been looking at, Jacob Sullum reporting on it, and Hari writing a book about it recently, is that addiction has much more to do with one's 'cage' than taking over one's brain. If you can change the cage, you can change the habit. Scientists have also been studying the link between child abuse and addiction. The answer is probably only surprising in just how strong the link is. The link between child abuse and addiction is as strong as the link between obesity and heart disease.

So all of this brings me to Scott. What did we learn about Scott in his biography? He was raped as a young boy. That is textbook abuse of a child.

What else can we guess? The tour bus is one hell of a cage. Worse, when things are great, you're a God on stage for 90 minutes a night, an indescribable high, and then for 22:30, you're trapped on a bus, and if you go places, you're mobbed. As things get worse, you're not even getting that high from being on stage anymore as it becomes 'punching the clock' and people aren't showing up. Yet you're still trapped on that bus or in that hotel room. And as Scott told Stern, to save his voice he can't talk after shows. That's isolation.

Worse yet, if that describes Scott, the odds are his brain hadn't been hijacked, but he had a severely bad habit that scientists would probably now link to his rape and his 'cage.' If you look at what was probably Scott's most successful sober stint, it would be after getting out of prison, roughly January, 2000. But big tour for No. 4 didn't start until May, and they didn't even start to promote the album together until March, so Scott had three months before getting back out on the road. Even still, from March to May, it was acoustic radio appearances and surprise shows, TRL, that kind of stuff. He wasn't immediately shoved into a bus for a year. His second successful stint was at the beginning of Velvet Revolver when Duff took him under his wing and got him into martial arts. But again, they took it slow. They played the El Rey Theater a year before Contraband came out and 11 months before their tour started.

If this is all true, and it is admittedly supposition on my part as I am not a scientist and did not know Scott, then the ultimate problem might not have been Scott not being strong enough, but society as a whole continuing to have an attitude towards drugs that makes it very hard for addicts to recover. Back when heroin was first prohibited, doctors objected, and even though it was legal for them to subscribe it to addicts in treatment, the federal government put many, many doctors in jail for doing it anyway. What's also interesting is that doctors had patients who used heroin recreationally, but as soon as it was prohibited, they had a harder and harder time not sliding into addiction.

Today we still have a habit of shaming addicts because we criminalize the activity. Then we force them into treatment programs that tell them they have no control over their own sobriety, despite the fact that we know this is not true from most of them. Scott has many faults, and he will always be judged personally for his addiction. But it's also just as possible that society failed him.

Rik

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Re: Scott Weiland found Dead
« Reply #341 on: December 13, 2015, 11:52:59 AM »
Please keep it civil here. Refrain from calling each other names, etc. This forum doesn't need any more negativity than it already has.


Side note: it helps a lot to keep your posts in your own back yard, so to speak. Statements that include a lot of 'I think', 'according to me' and 'from my perspective' tend to be more condusive to good discussion than generalisations or fingerpointing.


Thank you.

Pingfah

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Re: Scott Weiland found Dead
« Reply #342 on: December 13, 2015, 11:57:07 AM »
lovemachine97 has hit the nail squarely on the head there, brilliant post.

The war on drugs is one of the most damaging political wars waged on the American people. It's pure ideology backed up by no common sense. It was a stupid idea when Prohibition happened, and it is still a stupid idea now.

Vaporized

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Re: Scott Weiland found Dead
« Reply #343 on: December 13, 2015, 01:11:08 PM »
In my opinion, addiction is as simple as your first choice. It's as easy as saying no the first time. It's after you start where things get complicated.

There are people walking around out there right now that could be addicts but will never ever know it because they made a choice not to begin using in  the first place.

It's a crap shoot and Scott lost and he battled the majority of his adult life because of it.

Take it.

EyesOfDisarray

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Re: Scott Weiland found Dead
« Reply #344 on: December 13, 2015, 03:00:54 PM »
As always, lovemachine97 drops a great post full of insight and common sense. Unfortunately, I feel all that insight gets too easily lost on most people who are too stubborn or too complacent to challenge the current models by which addiction is stigmatized and punished. It is a societal problem.