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Author Topic: Why does Scott have a wrap for being "unoriginal"?  (Read 5619 times)

Bugaha

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Why does Scott have a wrap for being "unoriginal"?
« on: November 09, 2010, 04:48:01 PM »
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lovemachine97

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Re: Why does Scott have a wrap for being "unoriginal"?
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2010, 07:57:49 PM »
Just off the top of my head, I would imagine it would be that he got criticized for sounding like Vedder and Staley, the band got criticized for sounding like everyone else.

I would also imagine that, at least according to the critics, not having his own consistent vocal timbre (changing it up from song to song) adds to their criticism that he doesn't have his own thing, therefore unoriginal.

andrew

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Re: Why does Scott have a wrap for being "unoriginal"?
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2010, 09:19:29 PM »
He definitely wears his influences on his sleeve if you know what I mean. You do, trust me.
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VegasCrackerman

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Re: Why does Scott have a wrap for being "unoriginal"?
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2010, 11:02:51 PM »
Rep, not wrap
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lovemachine97

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Re: Why does Scott have a wrap for being "unoriginal"?
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2010, 11:54:59 PM »
Actually, it's either "bum rap" or "bad rap," not "bad wrap" or "bad rep".  "Wrap" has no suitable definition that would make sense, nor has a connection in the phrase been found by the people behind the Oxford English Dictionary (OED), and "rep" is short for reputation.  Bad reputation implies either some truth behind one's reputation or a collective opinion or summation about someone's reputation.  Neither are applicable here.

The phrase originated as "bum rap," which, according to the OED online, is slang that originated in the United States.  Bum rap, according to OED, means "1) a false charge or conviction; an undeserved criminal punishment, and/or 2) an instance of unjust criticism or undeserved blame".

The OED has also traced the etymology of the first definition to a June 5th, 1913 edition of the Chicago Daily Tribune ("They'll frame a ‘bum   rap’ on me before I've been out of stir a week") and the second   definition to September 30th, 1921 (Poor Tommy O'Connor got a bum rap   for the time being).  If you don't have OED access, Chicago Magazine talks about it with less detail here:   http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/July-2010/Top-40-Chicago-Words-Our-Contributions-to-the-English-Language/

The OED traces the definition of "rap" ["A criminal accusation; a charge. Freq. with modifying word (see also BUM RAP)] in this sense to Hutchins Hapgood's 1903 Autobiography of a Thief ('What makes you look so glum?’.. ‘Turned out of police court this   morning.’ ‘What was the rap, Mike?’ ‘I'm looking too respectable. They   asked me where I got the clothes.') and Merriam Webster shows how bum rap and bad rap are interchangeable:   b   : a negative and often undeserved reputation or charge —often used with bum or bad <given a bum rap by the press> (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rap).
« Last Edit: November 10, 2010, 12:02:29 AM by lovemachine97 »

Purple

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Re: Why does Scott have a wrap for being "unoriginal"?
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2010, 12:17:09 AM »
Actually, it's either "bum rap" or "bad rap," not "bad wrap" or "bad rep".  "Wrap" has no suitable definition that would make sense, nor has a connection in the phrase been found by the people behind the Oxford English Dictionary (OED), and "rep" is short for reputation.  Bad reputation implies either some truth behind one's reputation or a collective opinion or summation about someone's reputation.  Neither are applicable here.

The phrase originated as "bum rap," which, according to the OED online, is slang that originated in the United States.  Bum rap, according to OED, means "1) a false charge or conviction; an undeserved criminal punishment, and/or 2) an instance of unjust criticism or undeserved blame".

The OED has also traced the etymology of the first definition to a June 5th, 1913 edition of the Chicago Daily Tribune ("They'll frame a ‘bum   rap’ on me before I've been out of stir a week") and the second   definition to September 30th, 1921 (Poor Tommy O'Connor got a bum rap   for the time being).  If you don't have OED access, Chicago Magazine talks about it with less detail here:   http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/July-2010/Top-40-Chicago-Words-Our-Contributions-to-the-English-Language/

The OED traces the definition of "rap" ["A criminal accusation; a charge. Freq. with modifying word (see also BUM RAP)] in this sense to Hutchins Hapgood's 1903 Autobiography of a Thief ('What makes you look so glum?’.. ‘Turned out of police court this   morning.’ ‘What was the rap, Mike?’ ‘I'm looking too respectable. They   asked me where I got the clothes.') and Merriam Webster shows how bum rap and bad rap are interchangeable:   b   : a negative and often undeserved reputation or charge —often used with bum or bad <given a bum rap by the press> (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rap).

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lovemachine97

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Re: Why does Scott have a wrap for being "unoriginal"?
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2010, 12:35:24 AM »
How?

I figured a correction should actually be, ya know, correct.  I didn't berate anyone or be a dick, I just explained the correct usage.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2010, 12:36:55 AM by lovemachine97 »

purpleflowers

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Re: Why does Scott have a wrap for being "unoriginal"?
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2010, 01:39:16 AM »
I'd say the bad rap comes from people who are angry because Scott has the ability to sound similar to others he admires.  I think people who criticize him are jealous of his musical genius and/or bent out of shape because he is as talented or more talented than their favorite rock star!
 
From a business standpoint, at the time Core was released, Scott and the band were probably pressured by Atlantic to emulate the grunge sounds of Vedder, Staley and Cornell in order to sell more records. 
 
In my opinion, 12BB and Happy in Galoshes both showcase Scott's original style.  I also find his original sound in MANY STP and VR songs.     ;)
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Violet Skies

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Re: Why does Scott have a wrap for being "unoriginal"?
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2010, 05:31:02 AM »
I've heard a number of comparisons, such as he...

  • Sings like Eddie Vedder
  • Dances like Iggy Pop
  • Dresses like David Bowie

I wouldn't say Scott's a "total rip-off," but you can see where he shares similarities. When I say that though, it's in the sense that there's a difference between "reference" and "rip-off." For example, you can tell his make-up is taken from 1980s bands, but isn't that his point? Some of the things he does...and many musical artists do...are references to music he likes and bands he's admired. After all, art inspires art. Do these people think Eddie Vedder, Iggy Pop, David Bowie, or anyone, is 100% original? Read about any song, tv show, film, whatever, or any creative person like a musical artist, director, or writer, and inspriations and references will be mentioned by the creator of the work.

Like that old saying goes, "there's nothing original under the sun."
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kilter

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Re: Why does Scott have a wrap for being "unoriginal"?
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2010, 01:21:15 AM »
I think Scott sometimes goes a little overboard when paying homage to his influences. You can always tell when he's really into someone, he all but becomes them.. he's a really gifted mimic. Anyway, what's that Picasso quote, "good artists copy; great artists steal" or something like that?

therealcaptain40

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Re: Why does Scott have a wrap for being "unoriginal"?
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2010, 04:53:18 AM »
Scott has a bad rap because he's awesome. If he wasn't great, then the critics wouldn't even bother talking about him.

Casper

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Re: Why does Scott have a wrap for being "unoriginal"?
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2010, 05:16:08 AM »
you know the best part of this unoriginal/rip/off persona he gets accused of... he's got so many influences mixed together he almost loses himself and becomes his own all at once. kinda odd.
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bluesuedeiztrad

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Re: Why does Scott have a wrap for being "unoriginal"?
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2010, 03:02:28 AM »
you know the best part of this unoriginal/rip/off persona he gets accused of... he's got so many influences mixed together he almost loses himself and becomes his own all at once. kinda odd.

This reminds me of this famous quote (which I agree with):

"Nothing is original. Steal from anywhere that resonates with inspiration or fuels your imagination. Devour old films, new films, music, books, paintings, photographs, poems, dreams, random conversations, architecture, bridges, street signs, trees, clouds, bodies of water, light and shadows. Select only things to steal from that speak directly to your soul. If you do this, your work (and theft) will be authentic. Authenticity is invaluable; originality is non-existent. And don’t bother concealing your thievery - celebrate it if you feel like it. In any case, always remember what Jean-Luc Godard said: “It’s not where you take things from - it’s where you take them to."

— Jim Jarmusch