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Author Topic: kretz and luzier  (Read 4824 times)

cagedtiger1640

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kretz and luzier
« on: July 29, 2008, 06:20:26 PM »
I saw some people on here discussing the drumming of Eric kretz and Ray luzier on here so I just thought I would give my two cents.  Ray Luzier is a very talented technical drummer.  Yes he is technically more talented than Kretz, I said it.  That being said I strongly disliked Luziers drumming on the Army of Anyone Album.  I feel that it is over the top and unnecessary.  To me he puts fills and extra hits in just to put them in because he can, not because they are right for the song.  I fee his drumming is overbearing and doesn’t fit the natural flow of the deleo brothers riffs.  In fact I think it takes away from them.

Kretz on the hand always plays the part that fits the song perfectly.  Kretz is a very talented drummer as well, but I feel like his goal is to play a beat that fits the song perfectly and that he does.  Eric is a very tasteful drummer who never lets his ego get in the way. 

So in my opinion I'd rather have Kretz behind the pads because he is tasteful and plays the perfect parts for songs.  I understand that this is just my opinion and others will probably disagree.  I just prefer a tasteful drummer to a flashy drummer I suppose.  I'm curious to see others thoughts on this topic.

Rik

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Re: kretz and luzier
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2008, 06:23:35 PM »
Agreed 100%

guywithaguitar

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Re: kretz and luzier
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2008, 03:54:34 AM »
i disagree with you to an extent, i thought ray's drumming on that cd made most of those songs better. it was something else to listen to, an added level of musical intensity. i recall rob saying he wanted to play with a dummer that lit a fire or something to that extent and i think it really made the heavier songs. that being said i 100% agree with you on kretz, he makes stp. especially after seeing them live again recently, his musical contributions are heavily underrated. the way he sub-divides his beats is crazy.

lovemachine97

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Re: kretz and luzier
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2008, 09:39:34 PM »
One of the main differences between the two is a "feel" thing.  The way Eric plays drums, it's very Bonham-esque in that his count JUST behind the actual count.  Some refer to this as playing on the backbeat, but as this is hard to describe, think of it this way: Eric stays in time, but his attack on each beat makes it JUST in time.  You almost think he's gonna miss the beat, but he hits it as late as possible.  This creates a unique, groovy pocket.  Other drummers, say Matt Sorum for example, are more straight forward and robotic, and someone like Luzier almost PUSHES the beat.  He is on top of it, and almost drives the song.

I can understand people who like Luzier, and in a way, I do too.  I am a musician, and sometimes it's fun to listen to someone who is so technically talented.  For that reason, sometimes it's kind of fun to see a clip of Malmsteen playing guitar, but it would grow old very quickly.  The sudden bursts of Luzier's playing, like the solo in "Goodbye", for example, give me goosebumps.  The DeLeo's actually coaxed him to play like that in that section, and I think it worked.

On the other hand, Kretz kind of writes 'riffs' with his drums.  Much like Dave Grohl did on the album he drummed for Queens of the Stone Age, Kretz's patterns, grooves, and fills are 'catchy', much like a guitar part or vocal part can be.  In that way, not only does he create a booming, laid-back groove, he also writes parts that are memorable.

Oh, and I am a huge sucker for Kretz's semi-open hi-hat that is just a bit too high in the mix.  I used to argue with a friend of mine who is a great drummer--he hated Kretz's hi-hat, but I thought it was part of what made him unique--that almost out of time count so high in the mix, and just a little bit breath-y with that semi-open feel.

Of course that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Stop That Pigeon

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Re: kretz and luzier
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2008, 11:25:09 PM »
Quote from: "lovemachine97"
One of the main differences between the two is a "feel" thing.  The way Eric plays drums, it's very Bonham-esque in that his count JUST behind the actual count.  Some refer to this as playing on the backbeat, but as this is hard to describe, think of it this way: Eric stays in time, but his attack on each beat makes it JUST in time.  You almost think he's gonna miss the beat, but he hits it as late as possible.  This creates a unique, groovy pocket.  Other drummers, say Matt Sorum for example, are more straight forward and robotic, and someone like Luzier almost PUSHES the beat.  He is on top of it, and almost drives the song.

I can understand people who like Luzier, and in a way, I do too.  I am a musician, and sometimes it's fun to listen to someone who is so technically talented.  For that reason, sometimes it's kind of fun to see a clip of Malmsteen playing guitar, but it would grow old very quickly.  The sudden bursts of Luzier's playing, like the solo in "Goodbye", for example, give me goosebumps.  The DeLeo's actually coaxed him to play like that in that section, and I think it worked.

On the other hand, Kretz kind of writes 'riffs' with his drums.  Much like Dave Grohl did on the album he drummed for Queens of the Stone Age, Kretz's patterns, grooves, and fills are 'catchy', much like a guitar part or vocal part can be.  In that way, not only does he create a booming, laid-back groove, he also writes parts that are memorable.

Oh, and I am a huge sucker for Kretz's semi-open hi-hat that is just a bit too high in the mix.  I used to argue with a friend of mine who is a great drummer--he hated Kretz's hi-hat, but I thought it was part of what made him unique--that almost out of time count so high in the mix, and just a little bit breath-y with that semi-open feel.

Of course that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

I love this post. You're saying that Eric creates space as a jazz drummer would do? Couldn't agree more, that's what's so special about him (and Charlie Watts too).

Ray Luzier is awesome, no question, but Kretz is the heart and lungs of STP.

lovemachine97

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Re: kretz and luzier
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2008, 10:42:15 PM »
Quote from: "Stop That Pigeon"
I love this post. You're saying that Eric creates space as a jazz drummer would do? Couldn't agree more, that's what's so special about him (and Charlie Watts too).

Ray Luzier is awesome, no question, but Kretz is the heart and lungs of STP.

Sort of.  Yes, there is more space because he doesn't try to fit in as many "notes" or beats or accents that Luzier might, but like I said it's hard to explain.

This example isn't necessarily scientific, but let's say an actual hit of a snare drum can take place within a 1 second window and still sound in time.  Many punk drummers, or agressive drummers, or someone like Luzier, might hit the snare drum at the very beginning of that 1 second window.  Someone like Matt Sorum might split the difference and hit the snare drum in the middle of that 1 second window.  A drummer like Kretz (or Bonham) might wait til the very, very end of that 1 second window to hit the snare drum, sounding as if the snare hit might come late, but hits JUST in time.  All three of these drummers may be playing at the exact same beats per minute, but their "feel" is way, way different.  Does that make sense?

The funny thing about Charlie Watts is, if you notice, almost all drummers will keep their tempo on their hi-hat cymbal.  If there are 4 beats per measure, a drummer will typically hit the hi-hat on all 4 beats, the bass drum on beat 1 only, and the snare drum on beat 3 only.  If you watch old Charlie, he'll hit the hi-hat on only beats 1, 2, and 4, and only hit the snare drum on beat 3.  Weird.

Virgojams

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Re: kretz and luzier
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2008, 01:53:30 AM »
I think with a song like Goodbye by Army of Anyone...that had overpowering drums like it would be some big drum solo in a big stadium concert. But I did kinda like it that way as with another example on Leave It. It had that over the top drum beat towards the end. It kinda added excitement to the band!

StoneTempleBrett

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Re: kretz and luzier
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2008, 10:50:07 AM »
I liked Ray. without his drumming Goodbye would not have been memorable.  It pissed me off though when some people on the AoA board said Luzier would be a good option to drum in a possible STP reunion.  No respect for Eric and his contributions to the band at all.  If Eric or anybody else wasn't in for the reunion then I wouldn't be either.


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lovemachine97

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Re: kretz and luzier
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2008, 10:08:13 AM »
I agree, it wouldn't have been the same without Kretz...

The problem is, most people wouldn't notice or give a shit.  IT's sad, but true.  Outside the most hardcore of us, the average fan wouldn't even NOTICE if he were replaced, nor would it keep them from going to a show.

The best example of that was the recent Van Halen tour.  EVH held a grudge against bassist Michael Anthony for playing with Sammy Hagar while VH was inactive for 5 years, from 1999-2003.  Time came for a reunion in 2004, EVH recorded all the bass parts himself for the 3 new songs released, and would only take Anthony on tour if he agreed to sign away any future royalties from Van Halen (he is a credited songwriter on ALL of their material), and Anthony did so in order for the fans to see a Van Halen reunion tour with Hagar, and for that reason only.  He figured he has made enough money, and now it was time to give back to the fans, and he thought going on tour was the right thing to do, even though it was going to cost him into the millions in the future.

As soon as Roth was back in the fold on '07, Anthony didn't have anyone to go to bat for him, and he was replaced in the band by EVH's son, Wolfgang.  "You can't be in two bands," EVH said of Anthony, and apparently he figured Anthony made his choice by playing with Hagar still...

And the tour without him was one of the most successful of '07/'08.  In fact, most people didn't even know going in that it was EVH's son, and many people coming out didn't notice either.  Of course, Anthony is one of the great back-up singers in rock 'n' roll.  And Kretz is a TOTALLY different drummer than Luzier.

Luckily all the guys wanted to do this.